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Author Topic: COMPLETED - Thanks -GURNEY Family - Rickmansworth/St Albans?  (Read 891 times)
CFP39
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Posts: 105


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
COMPLETED - Thanks -GURNEY Family - Rickmansworth/St Albans?
« on: Wednesday 27 May 09 22:16 UTC (UK) »
Hi Guys

I wonder if anyone can help with this?
I have a baptism for my 2 x great grandmother, Nancy Gurney, at Rickmansworth on 10/11/1823, daughter of James & Hannah Gurney.
Can't find a marriage for them except possible James Gurney to Mary Ann Painter 5/8/1821, at St Stephens, St Albans?
Don't think it's too far away but could Mary Ann be aka Hannah?
Nancy was married 1844 so should hopefully be on 1841 CR with her family?  But don't have names of any siblings to help.  Any one have any ideas?  Have spent my quota on certificates.  Sad

Thanks for your time.  Smiley
Lee
« Last Edit: Saturday 05 September 09 22:35 UTC (UK) by CFP39 » Logged
Watford/Rickmansworth - Payne, Paddick, Gurney, Green, Nichol(l)s
heywood
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Re: Gurney family Rickmansworth/St Albans?
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 27 May 09 23:04 UTC (UK) »
Hi,
not sure if it helps with Hannah/Mary Ann dilemma but there is this:

1841 HO107; Piece 438; Book: 21; Folio: 13; Page: 21

Batchworth Rickmansworth

James Gurney 40 Publican
Hannah 40
Betsey 20 Rag Sorter
Nancey 15 Rag Sorter
Ellen 13
Sophia 10
Eliza 6
Samuel 5
Mary 3

all born in county

Do you have her marriage certificate?
Does James' occupation fit?
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Alexander, Suffolk and Lancashire; Ashworth,Whitworth, Grindrod Lancashire; Golden, Duffy County Mayo.
heywood
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Posts: 8248
Re: Gurney family Rickmansworth/St Albans?
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 27 May 09 23:07 UTC (UK) »
1851 has Hannah's place of birth as Rickmansworth
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Alexander, Suffolk and Lancashire; Ashworth,Whitworth, Grindrod Lancashire; Golden, Duffy County Mayo.
heywood
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Posts: 8248
Re: Gurney family Rickmansworth/St Albans?
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 27 May 09 23:13 UTC (UK) »
1841 has a James and Mary Gurney, St Stephens, St Albans.

Free BMD has a birth reg for Mary Gurney which may be the youngest child. When you have saved up you could get that certificate for Hannah's maiden name.

best wishes
heywood
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Alexander, Suffolk and Lancashire; Ashworth,Whitworth, Grindrod Lancashire; Golden, Duffy County Mayo.
CFP39
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Posts: 105


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Gurney family Rickmansworth/St Albans?
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 28 May 09 20:15 UTC (UK) »
Hi
Thanks for the replies Heywood.   Smiley

So I can rule out the James/Mary Ann marriage!
The 1841 CR entry looks good.  Grin
The marriage of Nancy to Joseph Payne is among the latest certificates I've received and shows James as a Miller.  Don't think that rules him out as career changes aren't new. However the marriage took place at Hillingdon, Middlesex so maybe James/Hannah's took place in that area.
Will hope that they were helpful and that they registered Mary's birth. Must remember to put in parents names when I order!  Had a similar problem with another of my families and didn't do so.  They hadn't registered either of their youngest children.  Sad
There is a baptism at Rickmansworth 19/3/1797 for James son of Samuel and Sarah Gurney, which looks a possible.  Smiley
Thanks again
Lee
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Watford/Rickmansworth - Payne, Paddick, Gurney, Green, Nichol(l)s
CFP39
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Posts: 105


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: GURNEY Family - Rickmansworth
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 01 July 09 21:05 UTC (UK) »
Hi Heywood

I'm waiting for Mary Gurney's b.c.  Smiley 

In the meanwhile I looked on FMP for a James Gurney marriage and they have one in 1816 on the West Middlesex Marriage Index.  I've used up my credits at present and wonder if there is any way to check the bride is the one I want before buying  some more?   Undecided 
Anyone with any helpful tips?

Thanks
Lee
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Watford/Rickmansworth - Payne, Paddick, Gurney, Green, Nichol(l)s
heywood
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Re: GURNEY Family - Rickmansworth/St Albans?
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 01 July 09 22:34 UTC (UK) »
Hello again,

I wonder why Nancy and Joseph Payne married in Middlesex  Huh

1851 HO107; Piece: 1714; Folio: 496; Page: 27

has Hannah and some of the children living in Rickmansworth. She is a widow and a rag sorter.

She is still there in 1861 and her occupation is 'formerly Miller's wife'  Cheesy
She is with daughter Sophia and a grandaughter Ellen Stalkam who I think is Stadham. (I can't find a Stadham/Gurney marriage  Undecided)
In 1851, Ellen Stadham is a lodger with Elizabeth Stadham,30 yrs,  married and other children. Elizabeth is a rag sorter. I wonder if Elizabeth Stadham is Betsy Gurney  Undecided

heywood  Wink
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Alexander, Suffolk and Lancashire; Ashworth,Whitworth, Grindrod Lancashire; Golden, Duffy County Mayo.
CFP39
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Posts: 105


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: GURNEY Family - Rickmansworth/St Albans?
« Reply #7 on: Friday 03 July 09 21:35 UTC (UK) »
Hi

Looks like another problem surname.   Sad

How about this marriage Joseph STATHAM at Lambeth June 1/4 1843 4 304
with an Elizabeth Gurney on same page!?   Roll Eyes
There is also an Ellen Stadham birth Dec. 1/4 1843 in Watford area but why would she be down as a lodger if she was living with her mother?   Huh

Mary Gurney's b c arrived this morning - her mother Hannah Coleman  Smiley

Now I know I've seen a James Gurney/ELIZABETH Coleman marriage somewhere.  Will have to make another search, didn't write it down and it may have just been IGI.

By the way do you know if there was a paper mill in the Watford/ Rickmansworth area?  I read somewhere that rags were sometimes added to improve the quality of paper!  Or what other reason for sorting rags?

Thanks for your reply
Regards
Lee
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Watford/Rickmansworth - Payne, Paddick, Gurney, Green, Nichol(l)s
heywood
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Re: GURNEY Family - Rickmansworth/St Albans?
« Reply #8 on: Friday 03 July 09 21:58 UTC (UK) »
I think I meant that Elizabeth and the children were all lodgers so it wouldn't show that Ellen was Elizabeth's daughter - sorry for confusion.
loosk like you have the right marriage for Elizabeth. (hopefully).
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Alexander, Suffolk and Lancashire; Ashworth,Whitworth, Grindrod Lancashire; Golden, Duffy County Mayo.
heywood
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Posts: 8248
Re: GURNEY Family - Rickmansworth/St Albans?
« Reply #9 on: Friday 03 July 09 22:03 UTC (UK) »
this is interesting re the rag sorters:

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=f04ee5de69d5abef04c077884c8e5c4c&topic=355232.0

just looked it up because my mother in law used to say she was a 'shoddy bag wrestler' which we always thought was a jokey name for her rag sorting job when she came from Ireland in the late 1920s - now I have just found out (and impressed my husband) about shoddy  Cheesy
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Alexander, Suffolk and Lancashire; Ashworth,Whitworth, Grindrod Lancashire; Golden, Duffy County Mayo.
heywood
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Posts: 8248
Re: GURNEY Family - Rickmansworth/St Albans?
« Reply #10 on: Friday 03 July 09 22:11 UTC (UK) »
There are several submissions on IGI for that James Gurney/Elizabeth Coleman marriage and a possible birth for Hannah Coleman.
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Alexander, Suffolk and Lancashire; Ashworth,Whitworth, Grindrod Lancashire; Golden, Duffy County Mayo.
Maddie
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Posts: 632
Re: GURNEY Family - Rickmansworth/St Albans?
« Reply #11 on: Saturday 04 July 09 11:31 UTC (UK) »
Hi

With regard to your question about paper mills in the area, yes indeed there was, John Dickinson Paper Manufacturer owned Batchworth Mill, I would think most probably where your Gurney's worked as they lived in Batchworth Hamlet on the census. Smiley

He also had a Mill at Croxley Green, a couple of miles from Rickmansworth & more in the Hemel Hempstead area. Paper making was a large industry in the West Herts area during the 19th & 20th centuries.

Hope this helps.

Maddie
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Beament, Hertfordshire
Brown, Herts & Berkshire
Wise, Berkshire
Dwight, Buckinghamshire

Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
heywood
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Posts: 8248
Re: GURNEY Family - Rickmansworth/St Albans?
« Reply #12 on: Saturday 04 July 09 12:06 UTC (UK) »
That's useul to know Maddie and sounds very likely.
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Alexander, Suffolk and Lancashire; Ashworth,Whitworth, Grindrod Lancashire; Golden, Duffy County Mayo.
CFP39
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***
Posts: 105


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: GURNEY Family - Rickmansworth/St Albans?
« Reply #13 on: Saturday 04 July 09 18:34 UTC (UK) »
Hi Maddie

Thanks for info on paper mills.   Smiley
Do you know if someone who worked the machinery would be a 'miller'?  First thought is of someone milling grain but given the paper industry in the area maybe not?  Seems likely the family would all work together.  Smiley

Hi heywood

Love the 'shoddy bag wrestler' description!   Wink
There was once a TV programme called 'What's My Line?'  Would have been a great entry.  Grin   Am I showing my age?

Well back to looking for a marriage for James Gurney/Hannah Coleman.  Not on HALS unless Gurney was spelt another way.  Sad

Thanks for your help.   Grin

Regards
Lee
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Watford/Rickmansworth - Payne, Paddick, Gurney, Green, Nichol(l)s
Maddie
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Posts: 632
Re: GURNEY Family - Rickmansworth/St Albans?
« Reply #14 on: Saturday 04 July 09 21:41 UTC (UK) »
Hi Lee

The only mention of Millers that I can find in my book of John Dickinson is at Home Park in 1881 but they were concerned with paper staining & Home Park was one of the Hemel Hempstead Mills. Batchworth Mill was mainly rag sorting.

I would have thought a Miller was more likely to do with with grain. Although there where a few flour mills in the area & a Windmill on Scotts Hill, the road that led from Rickmansworth to Croxley Green.

Salters Brewery was in the High Street in Rickmansworth, wonder if that has any connection. Huh

Just in case you didn't know James Gurney was buried at St Marys in Rickmansworth on the 10th November 1848 aged 53.

I also remember the prog "What's my line" so I guess I'm showing my age as well. Grin

Maddie
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Beament, Hertfordshire
Brown, Herts & Berkshire
Wise, Berkshire
Dwight, Buckinghamshire

Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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