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Author Topic: St Edmunds Salisbury Wlitshire - RODWELL Thomas 1778  (Read 10275 times)

Offline RODWELL

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St Edmunds Salisbury Wlitshire - RODWELL Thomas 1778
« on: Sunday 31 May 09 17:52 BST (UK) »
I have been advised that THOMAS RODWELL was baptized on 25 Dec 1778 at St Edmunds Salisbury. Could you please look this up? I am most interested in particularly finding information regarding his parents, but anything  would be greatly appreciated.

Other information is in my signature and profile regarding Thomas Rodwell's later spouse Martha Rodwell (nee Elton). All of their offspring appear to be recorded as being born in Salisbury Wiltshire. According to the North Wiltshire Online Census Project 1841, they lived at Church St, 1.

Cheers
Warren



+ THOMAS RODWELL (Occupation : Shoemaker) ...
   Christened 25 Dec 1778  St Edmunds Salisbury Wiltshire
+ MARTHA  RODWELL (nee ELTON) ...
   Christened 12 Mar 1786  Newton Toney, Wiltshire, England
+ THOMAS & MARTHA married at St Edmunds Salisbury

NORTH WILTSHIRE ONLINE CENSUS PROJECT -1841 ...
Civil Parish of Salisbury St Edmund, Book 1 Folio 53 Page 11
Church St, 1

CHILDREN (born):
1817 George,  1819 David, 1821 Caroline,  1823 Richard,
1826 Edward, 1827 James, 1830 Martha

Offline krisesjoint

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Re: St Edmunds Parish Salisbury - RODWELL Thomas 1778
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 07 June 09 01:33 BST (UK) »
Hi Warren,

A Big Welcome to RootsChat  ;D

I am a little confused by your request as you have the correct baptismal place and date for Thomas. Are you aware of his parents names - Samuel and Mary? I am not turning much I am afraid.

siblings

John 10 Dec 1775
Samuel born 11 Jan 1788 and baptised 8 June 1788
William born 17 Nov 1789 and baptised 16 May 1790

Some possible admissions to Salisbury Infirmary re your family.

Samuel RODWELL was admitted to Salisbury Infirmary 1 July 1775 and discharged - cured 29 July 1775  - J8-100-5
Mary RODWELL was admitted 24 Oct 1807 - J8-100-10
Samuel RODWELL admitted 28 Oct 1810  - J8-100-11
Caroline RODWELL was admitted 26 May 1827 - J8-100-14

Wiltshire Quarter Sessions

RODWELL James aged 18 - County Prison, listing as accused or convict. 2 July 1844

In 1841 I note Thomas and Martha's son David is not with the family.

There is a David RODWELL from Wiltshire - Convict to Tasmania 1838 aboard the LORD WILLIAM BENTINCK. He was listed as aged 24 when he married in 1846 - listing as aged 60 when he died in Victoria in 1888, father Thomas, mother unknown ;)

Cheers Kris  :)
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline krisesjoint

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Re: St Edmunds Parish Salisbury - RODWELL Thomas 1778
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 07 June 09 03:13 BST (UK) »
1851 Thomas (Shoemaker) and Martha are still in St Edmunds with daughter Martha. George is married and in Hampshire, (cordwainer) Richard also married and in Hampshire ( Iron Moulder) Edward married - no wife present lodging in Hampshire (Cordwainer) Looks like Caroline died in March 1842 Salisbury 8 291. I don't see David or James. 1861 Martha is widowed an almswoman. Daughter Martha now married is in the home - no husband present. Let me know if you require any of these entries. I note in 1861 Martha's POB is listed as Wimborne Dorset. Alas it has not helped me with anything earlier.

Looking about - I now see you are well aware of David, and note the Tasmanian Convict is the correct person. You are probably working backwards. Sorry I have not been much help. 

Kris  :)
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

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Re: St Edmunds Parish Salisbury - RODWELL Thomas 1778
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 07 June 09 07:42 BST (UK) »
Hi Kris,

Thanks very much indeed for your comments and efforts. They are greatly appreciated and should prove most useful in further research. It will take me a little while to process / absorb the new names and dates that you've introduced. But. in the meantime ....

You are right. I am working backwards. We already have the RODWELL information from when David Rodwell arrived on the ship Lord William Bentinck (2) from Portsmouth - Hobart Tasmania in August 1838. There are a few different ages recorded for him. However, it is most likely that he was born 1819 in Salisbury Wiltshire, and was 19 when transported in April 1838 for stealing five silk handkerchiefs. Being a tailor by trade does tend to fit nicely with a shoemaker father. The 1841 England Census of course was done three years after David was transported to Van Diemen's Land for seven years.

David Rodwell later married another convict Rosina Hammond (from Chelmsford Essex), and their first son David Cornelius Rodwell was born 1848 at Clarence Plains Hobart Tasmania. David (B:1819) & family seem to have followed the goldrush to Victoria Australia in 1850/51. There were two other sons, George Edward Rodwell & Walter Thomas Rodwell, but they died fairly young at ages 16 & 23 respectively. David's wife Rosina also died young, aged 29.

Fortunately, David Cornelius Rodwell (B:1848 Tasmania) & his wife Mary Ann Curnick (B:1853 Bradford England) had twelve children, so this lineage of the RODWELL name continued on. One of their sons, Samuel Richard Rodwell (B:1883 Percy Dale Victoria Australia) fathered Stephen David Cornelius Rodwell (B:1908 Jumbunna Victoria), who fathered David Richard Rodwell (B:1929 Charbon NSW Australia), who in turn is/was my own father.

Although I am currently based in China, I have linked up with other descendants of David Cornelius Rodwell still near Percydale and Avoca in Victoria Australia. We are trying to combine our research efforts. It is possible that I could visit Salisbury Wiltshire within the next 2 - 3 months. However , that is not confirmed yet.

Cheers
Warren 

Link to picture of David Cornelius Rodwell (B:1848) & Family
including David Rodwell (B:1819 Salisbury Wiltshire) [c1880]
http://journals.worldnomads.com/warrenr/post/31018.aspx

NOTE:
David [B:1819] died in December 1888. Based on the
number of children shown & their birth order, it would
seem that this picture was taken in the same year.




 
+ THOMAS RODWELL (Occupation : Shoemaker) ...
   Christened 25 Dec 1778  St Edmunds Salisbury Wiltshire
+ MARTHA  RODWELL (nee ELTON) ...
   Christened 12 Mar 1786  Newton Toney, Wiltshire, England
+ THOMAS & MARTHA married at St Edmunds Salisbury

NORTH WILTSHIRE ONLINE CENSUS PROJECT -1841 ...
Civil Parish of Salisbury St Edmund, Book 1 Folio 53 Page 11
Church St, 1

CHILDREN (born):
1817 George,  1819 David, 1821 Caroline,  1823 Richard,
1826 Edward, 1827 James, 1830 Martha

Offline RODWELL

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Re: St Edmunds Parish Salisbury - RODWELL Thomas 1778
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 07 June 09 09:32 BST (UK) »
Hi Warren,

A Big Welcome to RootsChat  ;D

I am a little confused by your request as you have the correct baptismal place and date for Thomas. Are you aware of his parents names - Samuel and Mary? I am not turning much I am afraid.

siblings

John 10 Dec 1775
Samuel born 11 Jan 1788 and baptised 8 June 1788
William born 17 Nov 1789 and baptised 16 May 1790

Some possible admissions to Salisbury Infirmary re your family.

Samuel RODWELL was admitted to Salisbury Infirmary 1 July 1775 and discharged - cured 29 July 1775  - J8-100-5
Mary RODWELL was admitted 24 Oct 1807 - J8-100-10
Samuel RODWELL admitted 28 Oct 1810  - J8-100-11
Caroline RODWELL was admitted 26 May 1827 - J8-100-14

Wiltshire Quarter Sessions

RODWELL James aged 18 - County Prison, listing as accused or convict. 2 July 1844



Hi Kris  8)

Another researcher passed onto me  the correct baptismal place and date for Thomas Rodwell (B:1778), so that narrowed down where and when to look. I was not aware that Samuel and Mary Rodwell were the  parents of Thomas, so that is wonderful news in itself & a major breakthrough, which satisfies the initial aim of this thread. Because a few other closely connected people and issues have been uncovered, it is probably simplest to continue rather than move into a new thread yet.

The siblings and infirmary details you've supplied are  interesting. I do appreciate the difficulty and limitations of tracing back further past Samuel & Mary Rodwell. One of the next steps for me is to see what I can find out about the other children of Samuel & Mary Rodwell (Thomas Rodwell's siblings): John Rodwell (B: 1775) , Samuel Rodwell (B: 1788), and William Rodwell (B:1789). Anyway, I can now add these people to my family tree at Ancestry.com. Perhaps later, I can trace them further back or forward.

With respect to Wiltshire Quarter Sessions and James Rodwell (B:1827) [son of Thomas B:1778], he does seem to disappear after the 1841 England Census, so it is possible that he was convicted, but I haven't yet been able to find any transportation records of him; unless he went to some other country instead of Australia.

MANY THANKS
Warren Rodwell

7th June 2009
+ THOMAS RODWELL (Occupation : Shoemaker) ...
   Christened 25 Dec 1778  St Edmunds Salisbury Wiltshire
+ MARTHA  RODWELL (nee ELTON) ...
   Christened 12 Mar 1786  Newton Toney, Wiltshire, England
+ THOMAS & MARTHA married at St Edmunds Salisbury

NORTH WILTSHIRE ONLINE CENSUS PROJECT -1841 ...
Civil Parish of Salisbury St Edmund, Book 1 Folio 53 Page 11
Church St, 1

CHILDREN (born):
1817 George,  1819 David, 1821 Caroline,  1823 Richard,
1826 Edward, 1827 James, 1830 Martha

Offline krisesjoint

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Re: St Edmunds Parish Salisbury - RODWELL Thomas 1778
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 07 June 09 10:32 BST (UK) »
Hi Warren,

Must be very different in China. I did see quite a bit on the family in Australia but soon found you had that side. Unfortunately I have not been able to find much to help with the Salisbury side. There is a Pallots entry for

Thomas RODWELL = Mary COOMBS 1797 Salisbury St Edmund (May connect)

Hopefully somebody will able to help further with Salisbury Records. I have not been able to find a marriage for either Thomas or his father Samuel.

Thomas and Martha's son

Edward RODWELL father Thomas = Mary BARNES father John 16 May 1847 Salisbury

I have not found anything further on the son James. I do think that is him in prison. I don't see him in the later census entries, nor anything further either in UK or as you say any transportation details.

Cheers Kris  :)
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

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Re: St Edmunds Parish Salisbury - RODWELL Thomas 1778
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 07 June 09 11:42 BST (UK) »
1851 Thomas (Shoemaker) and Martha are still in St Edmunds with daughter Martha. George is married and in Hampshire, (cordwainer) Richard also married and in Hampshire ( Iron Moulder) Edward married - no wife present lodging in Hampshire (Cordwainer) Looks like Caroline died in March 1842 Salisbury 8 291. I don't see David or James. 1861 Martha is widowed an almswoman. Daughter Martha now married is in the home - no husband present. Let me know if you require any of these entries. I note in 1861 Martha's POB is listed as Wimborne Dorset. Alas it has not helped me with anything earlier.

Looking about - I now see you are well aware of David, and note the Tasmanian Convict is the correct person. You are probably working backwards. Sorry I have not been much help. 

Kris  :)


Hi Kris,

George Rodwell (B:1817 Salisbury Wiltshire) married Eliza Wheatland (B:1810 Bastingstoke Hampshire) in 1837, and George resided in Hampshire at least until the 1881 census. Richard Rodwell (B:1823 Salisbury Wiltshire) married Eliza Perren, a minor (B: Upper Clatford Hampshire), and Richard appears in the 1891 census as still being in Hampshire. As you mentioned, Edward Rodwell (B:1826 Salisbury Wiltshire) was lodging in Hampshire in 1851. I have already traced him in the 1871 Census.


Based on what's known at the moment :

- Thomas  Rodwell (B:1778) : Last appears on 1851 Census (Salisbury Wiltshire)
- Martha Rodwell (B:1786) : Widowed in 1861 Census - an almswoman (Salisbury)

- Son George Rodwell (B:1817) married & living in Southampton Hampshire (1881 Census)
- Son David Rodwell (B:1819) transported to Tasmania 1838 (D:1888 Victoria Australia)

- Daughter Caroline (B:1821) died March 1842 (Salisbury Wiltshire)
- Son Richard Rodwell (B:1823) married & living in Andover Hampshire (1891 Census)

- Son Edward Rodwell (B:1826) Shoemaker in Winchester Hampshire  (1871 Census)
- Son James Rodwell (B:1827) in Wiltshire County Prison 2 July 1844 (no further trace)

- Daughter Martha (B:1830) in the Salisbury Wiltshire home 1861 - no husband present


At this stage and for my research purposes in Wiltshire, the only person above who may have retained the RODWELL familiy name & returned to or remained in the county is the youngest son James Rodwell (B:1827).That's if he was still alive or even in England after his Wiltshire County Prison stint. In the event that he was, it would seem probable that he would have followed his older brothers to Hampshire for employment.

Thanks again, Kris, for your assistance in narrowing down the possibilities.  ;)


Cheers
Warren


+ THOMAS RODWELL (Occupation : Shoemaker) ...
   Christened 25 Dec 1778  St Edmunds Salisbury Wiltshire
+ MARTHA  RODWELL (nee ELTON) ...
   Christened 12 Mar 1786  Newton Toney, Wiltshire, England
+ THOMAS & MARTHA married at St Edmunds Salisbury

NORTH WILTSHIRE ONLINE CENSUS PROJECT -1841 ...
Civil Parish of Salisbury St Edmund, Book 1 Folio 53 Page 11
Church St, 1

CHILDREN (born):
1817 George,  1819 David, 1821 Caroline,  1823 Richard,
1826 Edward, 1827 James, 1830 Martha

Offline RODWELL

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Re: St Edmunds Parish Salisbury - RODWELL Thomas 1778
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 07 June 09 12:19 BST (UK) »
Hi Warren,

Must be very different in China. I did see quite a bit on the family in Australia but soon found you had that side. Unfortunately I have not been able to find much to help with the Salisbury side. There is a Pallots entry for

Thomas RODWELL = Mary COOMBS 1797 Salisbury St Edmund (May connect)

Hopefully somebody will able to help further with Salisbury Records. I have not been able to find a marriage for either Thomas or his father Samuel.

Thomas and Martha's son

Edward RODWELL father Thomas = Mary BARNES father John 16 May 1847 Salisbury

I have not found anything further on the son James. I do think that is him in prison. I don't see him in the later census entries, nor anything further either in UK or as you say any transportation details.

Cheers Kris  :)


Hi Kris,

Thomas Rodwell (B:1778) & Martha Elton (B:1786) did not appear to have a child until George Rodwell (B:1817) arrived. This would have made Thomas 38/39 and Martha 30/31. This has led me to previously consider that Thomas might have had an earlier marriage. The Pallot's entry referring to a St Edmund's Salisbury Wiltshire marriage in 1797 of Thomas Rodwell to Mary Coombs could well be the same Thomas Rodwell that later had children with Martha Elton. Thomas Rodwell (B:1788) would have been 20/21 in 1797 which was a fairly common marriage age in those days. I wonder if it is possible to obtain any more information on i) the Pallot's entry for 1797; and ii) the fate of Mary Rodwell (nee Coombs).

Separately, Edward Rodwell (B:1826)[F: Thomas] marrying Mary Barnes [F: John] on 16 May 1847 in Salisbury matches nicely, so I'm happy to run with that for now.

I also feel that James Rodwell (B:1827) aged 18 is the same person in the Wiltshire County Prison on 2 July 1844. Can you please send me a copy of that entry?


Cheers
Warren


PS:
China is different, but my lifestyle is comfortable.
I will PM something relevant to you about it ...
+ THOMAS RODWELL (Occupation : Shoemaker) ...
   Christened 25 Dec 1778  St Edmunds Salisbury Wiltshire
+ MARTHA  RODWELL (nee ELTON) ...
   Christened 12 Mar 1786  Newton Toney, Wiltshire, England
+ THOMAS & MARTHA married at St Edmunds Salisbury

NORTH WILTSHIRE ONLINE CENSUS PROJECT -1841 ...
Civil Parish of Salisbury St Edmund, Book 1 Folio 53 Page 11
Church St, 1

CHILDREN (born):
1817 George,  1819 David, 1821 Caroline,  1823 Richard,
1826 Edward, 1827 James, 1830 Martha

Offline RODWELL

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Re: St Edmunds Parish Salisbury - RODWELL Thomas 1778
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 07 June 09 15:21 BST (UK) »
".... 1861 Martha is widowed an almswoman. Daughter Martha now married is in the home - no husband present. Let me know if you require any of these entries. I note in 1861 Martha's POB is listed as Wimborne Dorset. Alas it has not helped me with anything earlier ..."


Kris :)

Hi Kris,

I may have found something useful (a possible lead or even a connection) at
http://www.opcdorset.com/HamprestonFiles/HamprestonBurs1813-1860.htm

HAMPRESTON (DORSET) BURIALS transcribed from
the Bishop's Transcripts (BT) by Jacqui Bowen

22.4.1816; Eliza Rodwell; daughter of Thomas; 4; Longham; BT
30.12.1822; Thomas Rodwell; Junior; 21; Longham; BT

My suspicion is that these two could have been children of Thomas Rodwell (B:1778) and Mary Coombs. Eliza Rodwell would have been born in 1812 or 1813, and Thomas Rodwell Junior in 1800 or 1801.

Thomas Rodwell and Martha Alton did not seem to have any children until George Rodwell was born in 1817 in Salisbury Wiltshire. Therefore, suggesting that something could have happened to Thomas Rodwell's first wife, Mary Coombs, during the period between 1812 and 1816/1817.

Also on the Hampreston Burials ...
10.1.1844; Edward John Coombs; Infant; Canford Bottom; BT

Canford Bottom is in Wimborne, Dorset. This occurrence of the Coombs & Rodwell names could be more than pure coincidence. Please refer to previous post re 1797 marriage between Mary Coombs & Thomas Rodwell at St Edmund's Salisbury Wiltshire. My notion is that in 1861, the POB of Martha Rodwell [nee Alton] (B: 1786) aged say 75, has possibly been confused with the POB of Mary Coombs; unless  they both came from the same place.


1841 ENGLAND CENSUS HAMPRESTON (WIMBORNE) DORSET
http://www.opcdorset.com/HamprestonFiles/1841Hampreston.htm

 -  Mary Rodwell ; 65; Farmer; Born Dorset F11/P8
 -  Harry Rodwell ; 30; Born Dorset F11/P8               
 -  Mary Rodwell ; 25; Born Dorset F11/P8

The associated years of birth (Mary 1776,  Harry 1811 & Mary 1816) fit perfectly for Thomas Rodwell (B:1778) as father. From the Hampreston Burial records, the birth years of Eliza (B: 1812) and Thomas (B: 1801) also match if this is the same Mary Rodwell (nee Coombs) that married Thomas Rodwell (B: 1778) at Salisbury St Edmund in 1797. If so, then it is possible that Thomas Rodwell (B: 1778) may have fathered at least 11 children in total, with a small gap (if any) between two wives.


Cheers
Warren   ;D

+ THOMAS RODWELL (Occupation : Shoemaker) ...
   Christened 25 Dec 1778  St Edmunds Salisbury Wiltshire
+ MARTHA  RODWELL (nee ELTON) ...
   Christened 12 Mar 1786  Newton Toney, Wiltshire, England
+ THOMAS & MARTHA married at St Edmunds Salisbury

NORTH WILTSHIRE ONLINE CENSUS PROJECT -1841 ...
Civil Parish of Salisbury St Edmund, Book 1 Folio 53 Page 11
Church St, 1

CHILDREN (born):
1817 George,  1819 David, 1821 Caroline,  1823 Richard,
1826 Edward, 1827 James, 1830 Martha