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Topic: William Degnan 1875 (Read 188 times)
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sharon48
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 5
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Good Morning Kent searchers,
I'd appreciate any help in finding some information on my Degnan family.
WILLIAM DEGNAN [ Degnin ] b. 14 Dec 1875 Glasgow, Scotland, married 16 Oct 1901 Holy Trinity Church, Greavesend, Kent, England to:
Susan Appleby b. 14 Apr 1877 Queens Charlotte's Hospital Marylebone, London.
William and Susan had 6 children; Wilhelmina 1903; Elizabeth 1905; Hugh 1907; John 1912; William H. 1902 all born in Kent co., England.
WILLIAM'S,{ b. 1875 }, father was WILLIAM DEGNAN b. Ireland, as stated on Wm's death certificate and HUGH DEGNAN on Wm's marriage certificate.
No none name for Wm's mother.
I found brothers to William living in Kent co,in the 1901 England census;
John Samuel Degnin b. 1865 N. Ireland,
Hugh Degnin b. 1878 Kent, Eng.,
Edward Degnin b. 1873 Kent, England.
I know 1875 William and his father had been in the British Royal Navy and also the British Merchant Marines, unknown ship or dates .
My Degnan family's faith was Roman Catholic, they sailed from England 1920 to Pennsylvania.
I'm searching for any information on the parents of William , John, Hugh and Edward.
There is one Degnan family that keeps popping up, but the dates are completly wrong.
Knowing all census takers weren't all sharp as their pencils, I've kept what information on this family close at hand in hopes someone may shine a light on who is truely who, and what dates are turely true.....
Thank you
keep safe
sharon
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casalguidi
Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 11918
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Hi Sharon
Welcome to Rootschat
To start ......................
Sailing from Liverpool England January 1921 aboard the "SS Haverford"
Susan DEGNAN 41 married housewife
Wilhelmina 17
Elizabeth 15
Hugh 14
John 8
The family were of West Ham, Essex. Name & address of nearest relative in UK listed as C DEGNAN (nephew to Susan & cousin to the children) of 56 Clearer Road, Custom House, West Ham, Essex.
I can see the family in West Ham, Essex 1911 census (you will need to pay to see the full details) but it looks as though William may not have been at home that night http://www.1911census.co.uk/
The marriage of William & Susan states that he and his father were mariners - this would rather imply that they were Merchant Navy (Merchant Marine) rather than Royal Navy (or certainly at that time)
http://www.rootschat.com/links/06dh/ . Also, I can't see him in the Royal Navy service records http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/royal-navy-service.asp which could support the fact he was Merchant rather than Royal Navy.
Casalguidi 
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sharon48
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 5
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thank you so much for your help Casalguidi,
It was very nice of you to search for me, I do have copies of the ships passenger list and of course stories from family members that both William's were in the Royal Navy along with the Merchant Marines.
I agree with you though about them being in the Merchant Marines over the Royal Navy. I've been on the Archive site many times to find no record of either one, which lead me to rethink some of the family stories.
It boggles my mind that I'm unable to find any of my Degnan's in any census other then the 1901 but still nothing on William sr..
Also, it really confuses me that none of the sons remember their mothers name? ?
I'm in contact with a distant Degnan cousin, his gr-gr-grandfather is brother to my William and there were no mention of a mothers name on any documents he has too.
His gr-gr-grandfather was John Samuel b. 1865, and I know the mother was around till after what youngest son that I know of was born, which was Hugh Degnan b.1878 Kent co..
Both my cousin and I are in need of birth certificates, but without a name how could we be certain if it were the right family or not?
Hence the frustration from the census...
It seems the more we find, the more gets confusing.
I do appreciate your helping and getting back to me so quickly. it's people like yourself who is willing to help others that is the reason why we have ANY information at all.
Thank you
keep safe
sharon
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bearkat
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3883
Census Info. is Crown Copyright, from www.national
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Would the 1930 US census provide any further clues about this family?
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Middx - VAUS, ROBERTS, EVERSFIELD, INMAN, STAR, HOLBECK, WYATT, BICKFORD, SMITH, REDWOOD
South Stoneham, Hants - SMALL, HAMMERTON, GRIST, FRYER, TRODD
Beaulieu/Boldre, Hants - WOODFORD, CROUTEAR, BECK, BENDELL, KEEPING, HARDING
Kent - BAYLY, BORERr, MITCHELL, PLANE, VERNON, FARRANCE, CHAPMAN, MEDHURST, LOMAX, WYATT
Devon - TOPE, BICKFORD, FOSTER
YKS - QUIRK, McGUIRE, BENN
Nott/Derbs - SLACK
Hert - BARNES
L'pool- PLUMBE
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sharon48
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 5
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Bearkat,
My stubern wall lies in England, with missing parents. I have records of William and his wife and children from the 1901 England census till now. I have copies of his marriage certificate and death certificate. Susan's as well. My granmother was Elizabeth Degnan b. 1905 Westham, England.
William died in 1944 in Chester, Pennsylvania, my home town, unfortunately I never meet William, but, Susan was with us till 1958.
I also have adoption records for Susan and, Lucky me, also the letter her mother wrote to her before giving her up for adoption.
Whats holding me back are no names for the parents, other then William Hugh for the father.
Awhile back I found records for this one Degnan family, William Degnan and Sarah Quigley along with their children. It surely looks to be who I'm looking for, But, dates are not true for the children. In one record it gives my William being born years before John Samuel was, I know it is the other way around.
I've been tempted to adopt this family and just go on with finding their parents,, but, my Degnan cousin keeps me away from that idea.
He understand that mistakes are made, as do I and these dates may have been a slip of confusion, screaming kids at the front door, quiting time, in a hurry to make last call at the local pub???
Thank you for your help, I do appreciate it...
keep safe
sharon
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casalguidi
Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 11918
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I found brothers to William living in Kent co,in the 1901 England census;
John Samuel Degnin b. 1865 N. Ireland,
Hugh Degnin b. 1878 Kent, Eng.,
Edward Degnin b. 1873 Kent, England.
I'm wondering if it's this information that's causing the stumbling block - I can see no Hugh or Edward born around those dates in the 1901 census born Kent 
1891 - 27 West Road, West Ham, Essex
John CLARKE head mar 53 stevedore b,Scotland
Ellen wife 58? b.Scotland
Annie dau 20 b.Scotland
John son 18 apprentice carpenter b.Scotland
John DEGNIN son in law mar 24 sec'y seaman's union b.Scotland
Lizzie dau 24 b.Scotland
John son 3 b.West Ham Essex
baby not yet named 2 days b.West Ham Essex
RG12/1317 folio 54 page 17
......................
1901 - Riversdale House, Milton, Gravesend, Kent
John DEGNIIN head mar 36 secretary seaman's union b.Enniskillen Ireland
Elizabeth A wife 35 b.Glasgow Scotland
John S son 13 b.London
Elizabeth A dau 9 b.London
Wilhelmina dau 8 b.Gravesend
Helen L dau 5 b.Gravesend
Hugh H son 3 b.Gravesend
Douglas C son 1 b.Gravesend
Susan APPLEBY servant unm 23 general domestic servant. b (not known) foundling
Clara LOVE?? boarder mar 26 b.Gravesend Kent
RG13/711 folio 15 page 21
........................
The 1911 census shows John (DEYNIN) as born Glasgow!
Are you saying that this is William's brother or is it just an assumption ie. could he be a cousin or
other relative?
There is a family in the 1891 census of Scotland which could fit:
1891 - 89 Elderslie Street, Glasgow, Scotland (district 33 Glasgow page 10)
Hugh 46 b.Ireland (unemployed ship's pipe man)
Sarah 44 wife b.Glasgow
Willie 16 b.Glasgow
Hugh 14 b.Glasgow
John 10 b.Glasgow
There are also some entries which could relate to this family http://www.familysearch.org on the IGI for Scotland. I wonder if some of the family were sometimes known by middle or second names rather than their fornames?
Personally, unless you have done so already, I would follow up the clue to the nephew/cousin living in Custom House, West Ham in 1921 (info from the ship's passenger list). You will need to contact Newham Local Studies - I can't get the pages up at the moment but you will find it via www.newham.gov.uk - and ask them to lookup the street directories and electoral registers for the address for the year 1921 plus a year or two either side. You can then work back from the person living there to confirm their relationship.
Casalguidi
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sharon48
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 5
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Casalguidi,
Now you've got my wheels turning...
I'm pretty certain that William Degnan and John Samuel Degnin are brothers.
BUT, there is that one percent that leaves me wondering, and without documents to prove otherwise, it's left both Doug and I saying they were indeed brothers.
In the 1901 census it has Susan working as their servant, and the 1891 census was John Samuel living with his inlaws, his wife being Elizabeth [ lizzie ] Clark.
The nephew / cousin in mention on the passenger list is Douglas CHARLES Degnan, son to John Samuel Degnin.
The Degnan family, High, Sarah and children you mentioned below are the same ones I've been hanging onto for quite some time. Cousin Doug says he doesn't think they are the parents because of the dates.
I'm confused about this one.
Both Doug and myself have documents from our gr-gr-grandfathers with either Hugh or William as given names for their father.
It could be true, this family could be the parents of William, and John Samuel could be a cousin to William, so more searching needs to be done to prove this.
The information with Edward and Hugh were found by Doug, I'll contact him to find out just exactly where he found them.
Thank you for all your help and information., with your questions it has made me rethink ther is hope for finding this family.
keep safe
sharon
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Eyesee
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2695
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Checked FreeBMD for DEGNAN/DEGNIN and nothing shows up until 1895 in Kent, which is John's daughter Helen Louise.
Ian C
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CLAPHAM, Leeds and London
TOMLIENS, Herefordshire and Southwark
CLARKE, Sussex, Cambridge and Shropshire
FAULCONER, MANNINGTON, RICHARDSON, TICEHURST, BROOK, ELPHICK, All Sussex
UDY, CLEMENCE/CLEMENTS,WHITE, COITE, COBELDICK, Cornwall
BROOKING, Devon, India
FERNANDEZ, London, Somerset, Herefordshire
RUSH, CARTER, GIBSON, REMINGTON, London and Surrey
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casalguidi
Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 11918
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Ah, I see what you mean about the dates. The IGI http://www.familysearch.org has William DEGNEN (son of Hugh and Sarah) as born 4 Dec 1874 whilst you have 14 Dec 1875. December 1874 would fit with him being aged 26 at marriage (Oct 1901) though wouldn't it so it's just a discrepancy of 10 days - a minor error (perhaps even a transcription error) to make somewhere along the line and the father is Hugh as William says on his marriage certificate and the father had a maritime occupation according to the census. I'm very much leaning towards that being him.
Casalguidi
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sharon48
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 5
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thank you Eyesee,
I do appreciate everyones help very much.
I haven't given up on my Degnan family, it's been a lot of fun and quite a challenge to get where I am now, thanks to a great community of fellow researchers.
Yes, Helen Louise is John Samuels daughter. John Degnin and Elizabeth Clake had 7 children: John Samuel 1888; Elizabeth 1892; Wilhelmina 1893; Helen Louise 1895; Hugh Havelock 1898; Douglas Charles 1900; Horace 1901.
Thank you again
take care
sharon
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