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Topic: Help please re Coleman, Yates, etc (Read 642 times)
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RRYFS
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 66
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I wonder if anyone can help me with a bit of a mystery? Tracking back on my Yates line, I have only got back to James Yates (c1821). He married Caroline Barber Cox in 1844 in Leicester. She died in Mar qtr 1854 together with their youngest child (also James) in childbirth? James married again to a Mary (or Marey). She was probably Mary Smith and if so, the marriage was in Leicester in Dec qtr 1855. They were together at 11, The George... Kent Street in 1861 with 2 of the 4 remaining children. My mystery was that James' 3rd child Eliza in 1861, Elizabeth in 1871, was living with Samuel & Ann Coleman at 1 Kent Street and is described as Granddaughter. Her sister, Caroline was living with Ann Coleman (by now a widow) in 1881 at 1 Kent Street, and the oldest in the family, George gave one of his daughters Coleman as a second name. I have failed to find any earlier information about Caroline Barber Cox, but it seems unlikely that Cox was a married name, and if Mary Smith was a married name, I can't find anything in the right area for a Mary Coleman - and in any case would a child be named after step grandparents. So I'm really stuck to work out how Coleman comes into it.
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Leicestershire - Yates, Wright, Pole, Blakesley
Dorset - Tilley, Hunt
Dorset/Somerset - Rogers
Dorset/Southampton - Trodd
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AMBLY
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 4584
Falkland Islands "Desire The Right"
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Hi RRYFS
Welcome to Rootschat ! 
1851: Kent St, Leicestershire St Mary
HO107 / Piece: 2090 / Folio: 599 / Page: 17
Head: James YATES 28, Victullar Georges Dragon, b Leicester
Wife: Caroline YATES 27, b Bingly, North'n
Children: Caroline 4, William 3, Eliza 1 mth,
A few doors away, also on Kent Street their - I assume - son George YATES age 5 is residing with Samuel and Ann COLEMAN. George is listed as a Grandson.
HO107 / Piece: 2090 Folio: 599 / Page: 16
I say assume that this George YATES is James & Caroline's because you said earlier Eliza was James & Caroline's 3rd child. But going by what I see on the Census, she seems to be the 4th child (4th born and 4th who survived)
1) George
2) Caroline
3) William
4) Eliza
5) James (died 1854)
I also assume George age 5 above is the one who when he grew up and had his own children, gave a daughter the middle name COLEMAN.
If my assumptions are correct
Then we have Sam & Ann COLEMAN being described as Grandparents to the YATES children, before James YATES' wife Caroline has died.
This to me indicates the connection of the COLEMANs to the YATES is through a bloodline to either James or Caroline. If you already know for sure that James YATES is not a son of Samuel & Ann (thinking, illigitimacy or remarriage to account for surname difference) then it looks like the connection is through Caroline (again, illigitimacy, remarriage etc).
Do you aleady have the birth certificates of James & Caroline's children to see what her name is down as?
You probably need to obtain the marriage certificate of Caroline & James to see father's names and witness etc and start from there?
Also noting, Caroline's place of birth in the 1851 : "Bingly, North'n". It that Northamptonshire? 
Cheers
AMBLY
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AMBLY
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 4584
Falkland Islands "Desire The Right"
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There is a submitted record on IGI for:
James YEATES born 18 March 1822 Leicester, died 21 Jun 1876
Cheers
AMBLY
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AMBLY
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 4584
Falkland Islands "Desire The Right"
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Found a tree on A***ty
James YATES & Caroline COX Marriage 20 Jun 1844
James profession: Carpenter. Both living on Southgate St.
Marriage witnessed by William Cox & Elizabeth Angus
His father listed as George YATES
Her father listed as William COX
Looks like direct information from the certificate. Mind you, the tree also says Caroline died in 1872 age 48.....Looks like this tree owner's connection is via Eliza (married Daniel PRESTON 1872, died 1891) but in depth research into Eliza's parents etc hasn't been done, though there is a lot of information in descent of the tree.
Cheers
AMBLY
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AMBLY
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 4584
Falkland Islands "Desire The Right"
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Hi Mike
A little bit o ' Poetry - where'd we be without it! (A: a lot easier finding some of them ancestors, probably )
Aha. Mother is Ann YATES.
I wonder if this is the future Mrs COLEMAN?
Samuel and Ann are in the 1841 both aged as 40, with a 12 yr old Elizabeth COLEMAN in house (b abt 1829 in Leciestershire).
Address: Friar Lane.
HO107 / Piece 605 / Book: 9 / Folio: 47 / Page: 13
Cheers
AMBLY
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AMBLY
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 4584
Falkland Islands "Desire The Right"
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Hi Mike
Ooh, sorry - I meant to write - I couldn't make out his 1841 occupation, I'll have another look!
I think, I think - I have just worked out a bit of Caroline COX's 's family - just typing it up...
Cheers
AMBLY
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AMBLY
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 4584
Falkland Islands "Desire The Right"
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Hi Mike
getting betterer and betterer!
Oh, but that would mean a marriage of Samuel COLEMAN and Ann YATES in Civil registration, wouldn't it....if she was the the widow of George YATES. And for the Elizabeth on the 1841 age 12, to really be a YATES.
I just relooked at the 1841 for Samuel COLEMAN - it does say occupation "Builder". The uilder part is clear, but the initial B at first looked a bit funny. Now I see it, looks like the B in "Blackwell' written elsewhere on same pages.
Cheers
AMBLY
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AMBLY
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 4584
Falkland Islands "Desire The Right"
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Cross Posted same time!
BINGO!! Great work Mike!
bah! I had looked on Samuel COLEMAN / Ann YATES marriage on FreeBMD 1829 to 1841, too and found none. Now I see why.....
Samuel has been listed on FreeBMD as Samson COLEMAN!
Jue Qtr 1840 - Leicester - Samson COLEMAN and Ann YATES on same page - Vol 15, page 134
Cheers
AMBLY
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