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Author Topic: Clayton Family of Tupton  (Read 976 times)
Ecneps
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Re: Clayton Family of Tupton
« Reply #30 on: Friday 19 June 09 13:46 BST (UK) »
Excuse me if I'm duplicating, I can see the 1851 that you found Trish, but not the 1841:

1841 HO107  Piece 859 Book 3 Folio 6 Page 4     
Rock, Mansfield, Nottinghamshire
CLAYTON
Mary Ann  30  Getting Ling   Huh
Eliza      10 
Joseph    3 
Maria    1 
all born Nottinghamshire


Please could you look at Mary Ann's occupation, Trish?

Barbara  Smiley
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Census and bmd information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk and www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

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Ecneps
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Re: Clayton Family of Tupton
« Reply #31 on: Friday 19 June 09 13:51 BST (UK) »
Posting it so Sonja can see it

Wondered if Richard had already died and she was on Parish Relief, or was she a heather (ling) gatherer  Undecided
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Census and bmd information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk and www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

Lincs & Yorks - SIVILLS PREDGEN    Norfolk - EBBS WHITEROD ZIPFELL       Sweden - JÖNSSON CRONBERG ANDERSSON      Yorks - SPENCE HIDE HIRD      Durham - DALKIN SELBY RENWICK
trish1120
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My Amazing Mother 1912-1982
Re: Clayton Family of Tupton
« Reply #32 on: Friday 19 June 09 13:56 BST (UK) »
MMM, I was just looking at all this and about to post 1841 Census also Wink
1851 occp for Mary Ann is charwoman

Trish
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trish1120
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My Amazing Mother 1912-1982
Re: Clayton Family of Tupton
« Reply #33 on: Friday 19 June 09 14:00 BST (UK) »
Think you are right. there is a death Dec 1839 in Mansfield, for a Richard Clayton, 15 352.

Youngest child on 1851 Joseph is 9, could she have ben pregnant when he died?

Trish
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Ecneps
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Re: Clayton Family of Tupton
« Reply #34 on: Friday 19 June 09 14:02 BST (UK) »
Aah, it's possible, the death cert will give date of course

Occupations on the pages around her are things like FWK (frame work knitter) or cotton workers, seamstress, charwoman....

nothing else like her occupation  Huh
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Census and bmd information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk and www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

Lincs & Yorks - SIVILLS PREDGEN    Norfolk - EBBS WHITEROD ZIPFELL       Sweden - JÖNSSON CRONBERG ANDERSSON      Yorks - SPENCE HIDE HIRD      Durham - DALKIN SELBY RENWICK
Ecneps
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Re: Clayton Family of Tupton
« Reply #35 on: Friday 19 June 09 14:07 BST (UK) »
Quote from: trish1120 on Friday 19 June 09 14:00 BST (UK)
Youngest child on 1851 Joseph is 9, could she have ben pregnant when he died?

Think if pregnant, that would have been with Maria aged 1 on 1841

Am scouring lists of old occupations, and widows allowances!
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`There are two lasting bequests we can give our children -  One is roots - the other is wings`- Hodding Carter

Census and bmd information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk and www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

Lincs & Yorks - SIVILLS PREDGEN    Norfolk - EBBS WHITEROD ZIPFELL       Sweden - JÖNSSON CRONBERG ANDERSSON      Yorks - SPENCE HIDE HIRD      Durham - DALKIN SELBY RENWICK
trish1120
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My Amazing Mother 1912-1982
Re: Clayton Family of Tupton
« Reply #36 on: Friday 19 June 09 14:09 BST (UK) »
OOPs re child, sorry Embarrassed Just done 12 hr day at work.

YEP, unusual occp.

Also seems to much of a coincidence but next door on 1841 are ;
Joseph FREEMAN, 60, besom maker
Sarah Freeman, 55
Hannah YOUNG, 90

Have I got Mary Ann's parents wrong? And could Hannah Young be Sarah Freemans Mother?

There is a baptism on IGI for a Mary Freeman, parents Joseph and Sarah but it is 1817?? Could she have been 13 when giving birth to Elizabeth? Or was the baptism later than her birth?

SO confused Huh

Trish
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Ecneps
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Re: Clayton Family of Tupton
« Reply #37 on: Friday 19 June 09 14:18 BST (UK) »
Now I'm confused, you were doing the Claytons earlier while I did the other branch so will need to have a look through, and come back!

Barbara  Smiley
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`There are two lasting bequests we can give our children -  One is roots - the other is wings`- Hodding Carter

Census and bmd information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk and www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

Lincs & Yorks - SIVILLS PREDGEN    Norfolk - EBBS WHITEROD ZIPFELL       Sweden - JÖNSSON CRONBERG ANDERSSON      Yorks - SPENCE HIDE HIRD      Durham - DALKIN SELBY RENWICK
Ecneps
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Re: Clayton Family of Tupton
« Reply #38 on: Friday 19 June 09 14:33 BST (UK) »
Wonder if the besom maker needed ling to make his besoms, usually made with birch twigs (realms of fantasy maybe!)  Cheesy

added:  look what I found:
The besom maker was/is a country tradesman who makes brooms from bundles of birch twigs (or in some parts of Britain, heather)
http://www.workingwoodlands.info/besom_making.php

 Cheesy Cheesy
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`There are two lasting bequests we can give our children -  One is roots - the other is wings`- Hodding Carter

Census and bmd information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk and www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

Lincs & Yorks - SIVILLS PREDGEN    Norfolk - EBBS WHITEROD ZIPFELL       Sweden - JÖNSSON CRONBERG ANDERSSON      Yorks - SPENCE HIDE HIRD      Durham - DALKIN SELBY RENWICK
trish1120
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My Amazing Mother 1912-1982
Re: Clayton Family of Tupton
« Reply #39 on: Friday 19 June 09 14:34 BST (UK) »
I had to google besom maker earlier Wink

Sorry Barbara Embarrassed
But I did not notice the Freemans until tonight. Sarah Freeman, age 67 is next door to Mary Ann in 1851 Census also.
Please have a look at this as I am now worried about my conclusions.
Back later,
Trish
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Ecneps
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We will remember them
Re: Clayton Family of Tupton
« Reply #40 on: Friday 19 June 09 14:39 BST (UK) »
Quote from: trish1120 on Friday 19 June 09 14:34 BST (UK)
I had to google besom maker earlier Wink

Broom made of twigs - around this area  to call a woman a besom is a derogatory term, hussy etc  Grin
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`There are two lasting bequests we can give our children -  One is roots - the other is wings`- Hodding Carter

Census and bmd information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk and www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

Lincs & Yorks - SIVILLS PREDGEN    Norfolk - EBBS WHITEROD ZIPFELL       Sweden - JÖNSSON CRONBERG ANDERSSON      Yorks - SPENCE HIDE HIRD      Durham - DALKIN SELBY RENWICK
Ecneps
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We will remember them
Re: Clayton Family of Tupton
« Reply #41 on: Friday 19 June 09 15:20 BST (UK) »
Have been reading back.  Where did anything mention Joseph's father as Richard, was it just on the ancestry family tree?

Children of Mary Ann:
1831 Eliza (Freeman)   
1838 Joseph       March 1838  Mansfield    15   501
1839  Elizth is Maria  in 1841 census  Dec 1839  Mansfield 15 486  CLAYTON   Maria Elizabeth        
1842 Frederick  Sep 1842  Mansfield  15 484  Clayton Frederick William        

Quote from: Ecneps on Friday 19 June 09 14:07 BST (UK)
Quote from: trish1120 on Friday 19 June 09 14:00 BST (UK)
Youngest child on 1851 Joseph is 9, could she have ben pregnant when he died?
Think if pregnant, that would have been with Maria aged 1 on 1841

Youngest child was Frederick 3rd Qu 1842, so death for Richard Dec 1839, Mary could have been pregnant with Maria, but whose child is Frederick?

Birth certs needed I think!


Barbara
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`There are two lasting bequests we can give our children -  One is roots - the other is wings`- Hodding Carter

Census and bmd information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk and www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

Lincs & Yorks - SIVILLS PREDGEN    Norfolk - EBBS WHITEROD ZIPFELL       Sweden - JÖNSSON CRONBERG ANDERSSON      Yorks - SPENCE HIDE HIRD      Durham - DALKIN SELBY RENWICK
trish1120
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Posts: 3278


My Amazing Mother 1912-1982
Re: Clayton Family of Tupton
« Reply #42 on: Friday 19 June 09 15:36 BST (UK) »
Yes, as there are not many deaths that are possible for Richard 1842-1851. I CANNOT find him on any census Huh

Trish
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trish1120
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My Amazing Mother 1912-1982
Re: Clayton Family of Tupton
« Reply #43 on: Friday 19 June 09 15:43 BST (UK) »
Yes, I think so but then I found the marriage (really must keep notes!)

Trish
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Ecneps
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Re: Clayton Family of Tupton
« Reply #44 on: Friday 19 June 09 16:00 BST (UK) »
That's also the only marriage I can see, Richard to Mary Ann Freeman

So if Richard died, can we assume she had Frederick to someone else, and is the 1851 census wrong stating that she was married?

In 1851 Sarah Freeman is next door, married but no husband present either, have had a look for Joseph Freeman.... thought he maybe was with the elusive Richard somewhere, but not found, maybe both women were widowed but marked on the census as married.
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`There are two lasting bequests we can give our children -  One is roots - the other is wings`- Hodding Carter

Census and bmd information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk and www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

Lincs & Yorks - SIVILLS PREDGEN    Norfolk - EBBS WHITEROD ZIPFELL       Sweden - JÖNSSON CRONBERG ANDERSSON      Yorks - SPENCE HIDE HIRD      Durham - DALKIN SELBY RENWICK
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