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Topic: Barbara Logan born Rosshire c.1788 (Read 511 times)
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louisa b
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 10
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Whilst researching my husbands 3xg grandmother Grace Frances Phelps nee Logan, I found her in Liverpool in the 1851 census with her mother as follows:
Liverpool, St Barnabas, 44 Norfolk St
Barbara Logan head widow 63 publican Scotland, Rosshire
Grace Phelps dau mar 23 servant Liverpool
Edward Phelps grandson u 10 mon at home " "
Maragret Urquhart niece u 14 servant Corfu, Malta
Joseph Ellerby lodger u 24 mariner Liverpool
In 1841 they were in ?Richards St, Liverpool
Simeon Logan 60 Labourer S
Barbara "" 50 S
Thomas 20 Liverpool
Ann Urquhart 20 F S S
Thomas Hardy 45 ship master S
Andrew Holmes 25 mariner
Thomas Wain 45 labourer
So then I went to look at SP, and the only marriage I could find for the period 1796 - 1820 for Simon Logan was to Barbara Urquhart in Inverness on 16/12/1808 (nothing for Simeon).
Does it seem reasonable to assume that these are the ones I'm looking for??
Particularly given the presence of the niece Margaret in 1851( any ideas on tracking her down in Malta or Greece? what were they doing there??) and probably another relative Ann in 1841.
I've had a further look at Barbara and found a probable birth in Dingwall 7/12/1788 to John Urquhart and Mary Junor, with siblings
Christian 3/10/1790
Alexander 27/5/1793
Christian 4/8/1795
Roderic 29/8/1797
Thomas 21/7/1799
Roderic 23/7/1801
Colin 16/9/1803
George 7/11/1806
Mary 22/2/1810
SP only had one child for Simon and Barbara, Simon bap. 9/3/1809
The IGI has Grace and others bap. in Liverpool from 1820 onwards (although looking at OPC for ST Nicholas Liverpool several of the relevant BTs are missing....not sure what to make of the IGI entries.)
I guess I would like your opinion on whether I'm jumping to conclusions and making things fit, but the ages/dates do seem to match up in most cases.
Many thanks
Louisa
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9082
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Hi Louisa
Certainly sounds like you have some substance there  Have you been able to confirm father's name for the line you are following other than the 1841 census entry you have?
For example, this looks a possibility for daughter Grace's marriage perhaps:
Marriages 4th Qrt 1848
Logan Grace/ Phelps Edward West Derby 20 923
The marriage entry would include father's name and occupation to let you verify the family you have found on the censuses.
I wouldn't worry about the spelling of Simon's name in the records, a sign of the times with spelling variations on both first and second names.
Regarding niece Margaret's birth place, maybe a military family?
Monica
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire. Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll. Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire. Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan. McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland. Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland. ..........and lots of Spanish name interests........ Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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louisa b
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 10
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thanks Monica
Yes I'm pretty sure that is the correct marriage
I have the death certificate of Grace' daughter Barbara from 1939, which states she was born in Liverpool, and gives her parents as Edward Phelps, mariner, and Grace Frances Phelps formerly Logan. Age at death 87, lived in Victoria 60 years ( so born ~1852), and that also fits with the 1861 census entry (and birth Q2 1852 Liverpool 8b 148)
Barbara Logan head W 72
Grace Phelps dau Mar 33
Edward grandson 10
Barbara granddau 8
Frances " " 3
His occupation as mariner might explain why Edward is not there on census night
Yes I think I will go ahead and order the marriage cert, I'd forgotten that would give the fathers name (will it give the mothers maiden name??)
Cheers!
:DLouisa
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9082
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Hi Louisa
English marriage certs do not include mother's name, only father's name unfortunately.
Monica
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire. Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll. Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire. Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan. McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland. Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland. ..........and lots of Spanish name interests........ Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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Gadget
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 24464
Holy Island - Pilgrims' Path
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Just a wee bit on the niece, Margaret urquhart on the 1851. I've checked the British Ionian Chaplains and GRO regimental indices and there are a few Margaret E Urquharts listed as b. Corfu. They look as if they might be the same person but this is the best ref:
GRO Regimental Index (1761 to 1924): Urquhart, Margaret E, Corfu , 1837, 5th Regiment, Vol 925 Page 36
I believe that these can be ordered from the GRO in the usual way.
Gadget
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louisa b
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 10
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Amazing!
Could you tell me a bit more about what a regimental index actually is?
I'll let you know what info I get when the certs arrive
Thanks!!
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Gadget
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 24464
Holy Island - Pilgrims' Path
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The Indexes are just as they are described - a list of births which occurred to British military personnel serving overseas. There are also indexes of births registered at British consuls as well.
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9082
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Just a thought on the Ann Urquhart who shows in the 1841 census with Simon and Barbara. There are a couple of possible births on IGI in Dingwall, both with father Alexander whom I wondered could perhaps be a brother to Barbara (27/5/1793:)
ANNE URQUHART Birth: 25 NOV 1819/ Christening: 10 DEC 1819 Dingwall, Ross And Cromarty
Parents:ALEXR URQUHART and JANNET CHISHOLM - actual extract
ANNE URQUHART Christening: 01 JAN 1821 Dingwall, Ross And Cromarty
Parents:ALEXR URQUHART and BELL MUNRO - actual extract
You would have to follow through to hopefully a death entry for either Alexander to be able to confirm.
This link has a decendents line for some of the children of John Urquhart and Mary Junor:
http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=AHN&db=claurence&id=I085
Monica
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire. Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll. Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire. Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan. McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland. Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland. ..........and lots of Spanish name interests........ Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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louisa b
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 10
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thanks Monica - would a death entry list the children? I've had a death cert from 1841 (England) which was fairly sparse
Thanks Gadget - is there an online index I can access similar to freeBMD?
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Gadget
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 24464
Holy Island - Pilgrims' Path
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I used the ones available on Find my Past but you'll only get the same results as me.
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9082
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Hi Louisa
Scottish death certs after 1855 and the start of official registration in Scotland do not include children's names - except for those from 1855 where they did.
Have a look at Pam's post www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,24468.0.html which includes details of what is contained on BMDs and Old Parish Register entries.
Monica
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire. Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll. Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire. Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan. McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland. Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland. ..........and lots of Spanish name interests........ Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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louisa b
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 10
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Marriage cert arrived today 
29 October 1848 St Thomas Church, ?Walton on the Hill, Lancaster (very faint)
Edward Phelps 23 bachelor mariner father Henry Phelps farmer
Grace Logan 21 spinster father Simon Logan flax dresser
witnesses MP Unwin (v difficult to read), Ann McLeish
The marriage of Barbara Urquhart to Simon Logan 1808 Inverness gives his occupation as Flax dresser (I thought it was flax draper but maybe the letter like a long p is more like the German symbol like a B for ss?)
Any further info on the occupation of flax dresser appreciated.
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9082
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Hi Louisa
That's great news and just the confirmation you needed
Monica
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire. Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll. Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire. Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan. McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland. Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland. ..........and lots of Spanish name interests........ Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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