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Topic: Florence Cartwright -Robert Dines (Dynes) (Read 488 times)
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henery
RootsChat Member
Posts: 114
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi everyone.
Can someone help me in finding out what happened to a Florence Cartwright, believed to have been born in Rotherham about 1895?
She had a sister called Annie Eliza Cartwright born 1893.
Florence married a Robert Dines or Dynes date unknown.
Family legend believes that Robert went to Australia and that he trained to be a pilot.He returned to England, date unknown. and is said to have been killed.
Can anyone help?
Thanks from Henery. 
Sorry its Dines or Dynes
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avm228
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 5140
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hello Henery
I'm drawing a blank at the moment. I can see a Florence Cartwright b Dec qtr 1895 Rotherham, but she seems from the 1901 census likely to be a daughter of William & Louisa Cartwright in Swinton (in Rotherham RD). No Annie among her siblings.
Then I can see an Annie Eliza Cartwright b Sep qtr 1893 Rotherham, who seems from the 1901 census to be a daughter of William & Annie Cartwright in Rotherham itself. She has several siblings but no Florence among them.
I can also see no trace of a marriage for Florence to Robert Dines/Dynes or any sign of them as a couple in e.g. immigration/emigration records.
Is there anything else you know that might be a clue? Did Robert and Florence have children, to your knowledge? (NB don't post details of living people, per Rootschat policy).
Would love to help but am stuck for now!
Anna 
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Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)
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posteria
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 620
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Hello
Annie Eliza Cartwright born 1893 Rotherham had a sister Florence who was born in 1884. She appears on the 1891 census with parents William and Annie at reference Rotherham RG12/3849 Folio 77 Page 31
Since there is a question mark against her age in the original post, is it possible that the Florence we are looking for could have been eleven years older than originally thought ?
posteria
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posteria
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 620
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In 1901 this Annie Eliza Cartwright’s sister, Florence, is living with her Aunt, Mary Holden nee Pierpoint in Derbyshire at reference Belper RG13/3228 Folio 18 Page 28. That is why she does not appear with her parents, William and Annie nee Pierpoint in 1901.
Florence is still living with the Holden’s in Belper on the 1911 census and in 1915 she married her cousin, Wilfrid Holden.
posteria
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posteria
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 620
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This might be coincidental or irrelevant but it is interesting ....
On 23/12/1920 a Robert I Dines aged 26 sailed to Sydney on board the “Medic”. He was listed as a Farmer. (He is indexed as Robert J Dines)
A Robert Imrie Dines was born in 1894 in Hampstead.
On 08/06/1929 a Mrs Florence Dines aged 40 and her 1 year old son, Robert Imrie Dines arrived in England from Australia. Their address in England is shown as Longwood, Chelford, Kent.
On the previous entry there is a Mr Henry Robert Dines aged 70 and Mrs Elizabeth Dines aged 62 with the address Longwood, Chelsford. He is a retired Bank Manager.
They all sailed back on the "Ulysses", boarding at Melbourne.
posteria
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posteria
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 620
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On 23/04/1927 Henry Dines aged 68 and Elizabeth Dines aged 60, sailed from Liverpool to Montreal, Canada on board the “Andania”. He is shown to be retired and their address was shown then to be Chandlers Ford, Hants.
posteria
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avm228
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 5140
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Posteria - that is brilliant!
Here's an online birth announcement from Australia (apparently from the Melbourne Argus of 2 September 1927) which suggests that Robert Imrie Dines Snr (a Flt Lt, so consistent with the flying story) had died before the birth of Robert Imrie Dines Jnr:
DINES. -On the 31st August, at Ulverstone, North
road, Brighton, to the late Flight-Lieutenant
Dines & Mrs. R.I. Dines -a son (Robert Imrie).
http://ndpbeta.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/correction/3876582
English records also show the death of a Robert Imrie Dines in SW Dorset in Sep 2002 -DOB given as 31 August 1927.
Anna
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Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)
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posteria
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 620
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Hello Anna
This may also be irrelevant or it may contain a word which is very relevant ...
On 06/07/1924 a Florence Dines aged 35 arrived at Southampton on board the “Hobson’s Bay” from Brisbane.
Her address in UK is shown as Belpur, Devon which might really have been Belper, Derby and she may have been visiting relatives ?
posteria
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avm228
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 5140
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hello Anna
This may also be irrelevant or it may contain a word which is very relevant ...
On 06/07/1924 a Florence Dines aged 35 arrived at Southampton on board the “Hobson’s Bay” from Brisbane.
Her address in UK is shown as Belpur, Devon which might really have been Belper, Derby and she may have been visiting relatives ?
posteria
I like it!
The 1924 Australian electoral roll for Victoria shows a Robert Imrie Dines as an orchardist, address Tresco West.
In the same year at Toorak, Fawkner, Victoria was this couple:
Florence DINES (occupation: home duties)
Robert Imrie DINES (occupation: nil)
both at 40, Hawksburn Rd, Toorak
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Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)
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henery
RootsChat Member
Posts: 114
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hello everyone
What a mass of info you are all providing for me about Florence and Robert.A lot of it seems to match in with family hearsay.
One extra piece of info which seems to tie in Florence
is believed to have lived in Devon maybe after death of Robert who may have died in an aircrash.
Many thanks again, I will be back this afternoon to absorb all your info.
Henery
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posteria
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 620
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Hello
This might be yet another coincidence or irrelevance but on 6th September 1915 a Wilfred Holden from Belper was killed in action at Gallipoli.
He was a Lance Corporal in the Household Cavalry and Cavalry of the Line (including Yeomanry and Imperial Camel Corps), Derbyshire Yeomanry Battalion. His service number was 1811
The marriage of a Florence Cartwright and a Wilfred Holden, which I referred to earlier, had taken place in the first quarter of 1915 at Belper.
posteria
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posteria
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 620
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From the birth registration indexes, on FreeBMD, there were only two children called Wilfred Holden born at Belper. One was born in 1883 and he lived in the same household as Florence Cartwright in 1901 and 1911. The other was called Wilfred Charles Holden who was born and died in 1896.
It now seems relevant and highly probable that the Wilfred Holden born in 1883 married Florence at the beginning of 1915 and was then killed in action later in the same year.
posteria
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posteria
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 620
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The marriage between William Holden and Florence Cartwright took place on 4th January 1915 at Hazlewood.
The bride was aged 30 and the groom was 32.
The bride’s father was William Cartwright and the groom’s father was William Holden
From “England & Wales Marriages 1538-1940” database on Ancestry
posteria
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henery
RootsChat Member
Posts: 114
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi everyone
First a big thank you to all for the info supplied on Florence and Robert. Definitely Dines.
posteria. Your reply no.3 confirms that Florence did exist, when I could not find her in 1901 and 1911 I was beginning to have doubts.
It seems possible that she was born1884 which confirms family accounts that she was one of 17 children!! fathered by William Cartwright who married Anne in 1882. There is a sudden gap between1st son Percy B1882 and 2nd son Ernest B1890. Belper was also a place of residence for members of the family at a later date. The possible marriage to Wilfred Holden in 1915 is the first reference the family have to a connection with Holden.
It now appears that Florence was married twice .But I cannot find references to either of them.
Reply no10 Wilfred Holden at Gallipoli is very interesting.I have tried CWGC but cannot locate him on their records.I must look somewhere else.
Reply 4 about a Robert Dines aged 26 sailing to Australia, is there no reference to Florence?
Anna reply no.6 your info from the Melbourne Argus seems to be spot on!!
No8 I wonder what an Orchardist is?
What a lot of info you have all obtained for me.
Many many thanks.
Henery
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avm228
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 5140
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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The possible marriage to Wilfred Holden in 1915 is the first reference the family have to a connection with Holden.
It now appears that Florence was married twice .But I cannot find references to either of them.
The first is easy - it's on FreeBMD:
Marriage Mar qtr 1915
Cartwright Florence (to Holden)
Holden Wilfrid (to Cartwright)
Belper 7b 907
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Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)
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Pages: [1] 2
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