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Topic: Cutler family from Portsmouth to Shoreditch - please help (Read 226 times)
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jmec73
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 17
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi,
This is my first posting here, so I hope I'm not misusing this in anyway.
I've traced my Great-Great-Great Grandfather who was born in Shoreditch, Middlesex c.1823 but have been unable to find any details of his parentage or preceding family other than his own wife and children. So any help with parish registers lookups (I don't know which Church he would have been baptised in I'm afraid) or other hints would be much appreciated.
What I know so far is:
James Henry Cutler, b. c1823, d. c1891, married to Mary Cutler also born about 1823. James was born in Shoreditch, and in the 1881 census was living in Camberwell with 3 children: Alfred S Cutler (b. c1859); Albert F Cutler (b. c1863); Annie Cutler (b. c1866).
Alfred S Cutler (my Great-Great Grandfather) was married to Annie S Frith (c.1862-1919) and they had three children: Mabel F Cutler (b. c1887); Alfred V Cutler (b. c1891); and Albert Walter Cutler (b. c1892/3 and d. 1981). Albert Walter Cutler was my Great Grandfather.
I hope someone may be able to help. Many thanks in advance.
Jon.
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Valda
Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9735
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Hi Jon
So taking them back census by census you immediately gain two older siblings
1871 census RG10 638 folio 5
13 Earl Road Bermondsey
James H Cutler 48 Head Married Hatter Shoreditch Middlesex
Mary Cutler 48 Wife Married Gloucestershire
Louisa Cutler 20 Daughter Bristol Gloucestershire
George Cutler 17 Son Southwark Surrey
Alfred Cutler 11 Son Bermondsey Surrey
Albert Cutler 8 Son Bermondsey Surrey
Anne Cutlerer 5 Daughter Bermondsey Surrey
Regards
Valda
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Mum44
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 5141
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Hello Jon 
Welcome to Rootschat 
I haven't found James baptism, however, do you have details of the family on earlier censuses ? It seems Alfred had 6 older brothers and sisters. Would you like earlier census details ?
I think James Henry and Mary were married in 1846 in Kensington; do you have Alfred's birth certificate giving Mary's maiden name ?
ADDED : Sorry Valda Didn't see you there til I'd pressed send 
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Census information is Crown Copyright from TNA.
Titchfield, Hampshire: Reed, Fielder, Cawte, Goddard.
Kent: Float, Cutbush.
Wallasey, Cheshire: Carroll, Ledsham.
Liverpool : Horsfall, Prescott
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Valda
Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9735
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Hi Jon and Mum44
The family is easier to find in 1851 than in 1861.
1851 census HO107 1547 folio 340
8 Grove Street St George in the East
James Hy Cutler 28 Head Married Journeyman Hatter Shoreditch Middlesex
Mary Cutler 28 Wife Married Gloucestershire
Fredrick Henry Cutler 3 Son Bermondsey Surrey
Eliza Emily Cutler 2 Daughter Clifton Bristol
Maria Louisa Cutler 2 Daughter St Paul Bristol
Regards
Valda
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Valda
Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9735
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At last the 1861 census
1861 census RG9 284 folio 93
17 Stepney Roadway Stepney
James H Cutler 38 Head Married Shopman Southwark Surrey
Mary Cutler 38 Wife Married Southwark Surrey
Frederick Cutler 13 Son Southwark Surrey
Eliza Cutler 12 Daughter Southwark Surrey
Louisa Cutler 10 Daughter Southwark Surrey
George Cutler 8 Son Southwark Surrey
Thomas Cutler 5 Son Southwark Surrey
Alfred Cutler 2 Son Southwark Surrey
Regards
Valda
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Valda
Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9735
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I'm wondering whether this is James Henry in 1841
1841 census HO107 1049/2 folio 29
Grange Walk Bermondsey
James Cutler 55 Mattress?? maker not born Surrey
James Cutler 15 Lab not born Surrey
Sarah Cutler 50 Not born Surrey
Elizth Cutler 25 Not born Surrey
Martha Cutler 20 Not born Surrey
Lucy Cutler 20 Not born Surrey
Caroline Cutler 20 Not born Surrey
Jane Cutler 15 born Surrey
George Cutler 10 Born Surrey
Thos Cutler 8 Born Surrey
Adult ages, those over 15, usually rounded down to the nearest 5 on the 1841 census.
1851 census HO107 1552 folio 331
9 Upper Story Street North Stepney
Sarah Cutler 62 Head Widow Annuitant Bethnal Green Middlesex
Martha Cutler 21 Daughter Cloth Cap maker Bermindsey Surrey
George Cutler 21 Son Colour Maker Bermondsey Surrey
Thomas Cutler 19 Son Clerk Bermondsey Surrey
Possibel death registration of James senior.
Deaths Mar 1847
Cutler James Bermondsey 4 26
For this to be the right family (and you will need to obtain a copy of James Henry's marriage certificate to help confirm his father's name and occupation) then this baptism of James Henry must be an adult baptism, though the index doesn't specify this. Given Sarah's age on both censuses that is a possibility. The other three Bermondsey baptisms are also of siblings of various ages at the time of baptism.
Any of these baptisms in the parish register itself would give James senior's occupation
JAMES HENRY CUTLER
Christening: 20 MAY 1842 Saint Mary Magdalene, Bermondsey, London
Father: JAMES CUTLER
Mother: SARAH
JANE CUTLER
Christening: 28 JUN 1837 Saint Mary Magdalene, Bermondsey, London
Father: JAMES CUTLER
Mother: SARAH
GEORGE CUTLER
Christening: 28 JUN 1837 Saint Mary Magdalene, Bermondsey, London
Father: JAMES CUTLER
Mother: SARAH
THOS. WILLM CUTLER
Christening: 28 JUN 1837 Saint Mary Magdalene, Bermondsey, London
Father: JAMES CUTLER
Mother: SARAH
This seems like most of the other older children except Caroline. Not all the children may have survived childhood.
SARAH LUCY CUTLER
Birth: 04 MAR 1809
Christening: 21 MAY 1809 Saint Matthew, Bethnal Green, London
Father: JAMES CUTLER
Mother: SARAH
LUCY ANN CUTLER
Birth: 06 JAN 1811
Christening: 28 JUL 1811 Saint Matthew, Bethnal Green, London
Father: JAMES CUTLER
Mother: SARAH
MARY ANN CUTLER
Birth: 12 DEC 1812
Christening: 25 JUL 1813 Saint Matthew, Bethnal Green, London
Father: JAMES CUTLER
Mother: SARAH
ELIZABETH CUTLER
Birth: 08 NOV 1814
Christening: 04 JUN 1815 Saint Matthew, Bethnal Green, London
Father: JAMES CUTLER
Mother: SARAH
MARTHA CUTLER
Birth: 18 MAY 1816
Christening: 21 JUL 1816 Saint Matthew, Bethnal Green, London
Father: JAMES CUTLER
Mother: SARAH
LUCY CATHERINE CUTLER
Birth: 01 JUN 1818
Christening: 21 JUN 1818 Saint Matthew, Bethnal Green, London
Father: JAMES CUTLER
Mother: SARAH
There is a James Cutler and Sarah Stevens marriage in Islington in 1807. That might be them or it might not - James Cutler isn’t a rare name so it is only a possibility until proven correct.
I haven’t got a clue though where Portsmouth comes into all this though?
Regards
Valda
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jmec73
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 17
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi,
Thank you so much for such a quick and comprehensive response. I'm genuinely blown away by your help, really great!
Also, v interesting to see that he's acquired 3 more siblings! Unfortunately I don't have Mary's maiden name. I'll have a look at what I know already and what you've supplied to see how it all shapes up - should keep me busy!
BTW, the Portsmouth link is that Albert Walter Cutler lived in Portsmouth (Cosham) when I was a child and to his death and was married to Florence Cutler (nee Clarke). They were married near Chichester. Interestingly she married his slightly older brother first (Alfred I guess) but he was killed at the Somme in WWI, and they then married in 1919.
Thanks again, and also for anything else you might find.
Jon.
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Valda
Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9735
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The marriage certificate (or one of the birth certificates of James Henry's children to confirm Mary's maiden name) and then the marriage certificate would confirm who James Henry's father was and what his occupation was. The censuses merely give possibilities of James Henry's siblings and parents.
1861 census RG9 285 folio 66
35 Bromley Street Stepney
Sarah Cutler 72 Head Widow Pensioner of Grocers Co. Bethnal Green Middlesex
Martha Cutler 44 Daughter Unmarried Cloth cap maker Shoreditch Middlesex
George Cutler 30 Head Married Oil colour maker Bermondsey Surrey
Elizabeth Cutler 22 Wife Married Staffordshire
George Jason Cutler 1 Son Stepney Middlesex
In which case James senior was unlikely to be a mattress?? maker on the 1841 census - but it is difficult to read what it says.
1871 census RG10563 folio 6
117 Turners Road Mile End Old Town
George Cutler 41 Head Married Colour maker Bermondesy
Elizabeth Cutler 29 Wife Married Staffordshire
George Cutler 11 Son Stepney Middlesex
Elizabeth C Cutler 8 Daughter Limehouse Middlesex
John W Cutler 8 Son Limehouse Middlesex
Thomas H Cutler 5 Son Limehouse Middlesex
Phoebe A Cutler 6 months Daughter Miles End Old Town
Thomas W Cutler 39 Brother Married Warehouseman Bermondsey
With George and his family on the 1881 census in Limehouse is his widowed sister Mary Ann Shingleton aged 69 and born Shoreditch.
MARY ANN CUTLER
STEPHEN SHINGLETON
Marriage: 02 JAN 1837 Saint Mary, Newington, Surrey
Thomas William Cutler was an engine driver in Bermondsey in 1861 with wife Jemima nee Cater who he married in 1860 in Stepney registration district. In 1881 he was in St Giles in the Fields with his wife. In 1891 he was in St Giles in the Field's workhouse. Brother George was still in Mile End.
Regards
Valda
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Valda
Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9735
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1891 census RG12 223 folio 18
27 Red Lion Street Clerkenwell
James H Cutler 68 Head Married Living on own means Shoreditch Middlesex
Mary Cutler 68 Wife Married Frampton Gloucestershire
Deaths Sep 1891
Cutler James Henry 69 Holborn 1b 436
Mary was with her married daughter and her husband - Annie and Albert Woolgar in Essex in 1901 and still only giving a birthplace of Gloucestershire.
A possible death registration for her.
Deaths Jun 1907 Cutler Mary 85 W.Ham 4a 129
There are two Frampton parishes in Gloucestershire. Frampton on Severn whose baptism registers are covered by the IGI and Frampton Cotterell. Frampton Cotterell had a hat factory at some point (founded 1837) so did attract hatters. It previously had master feltmakers.
1851 census HO107 1581 folio ?
1 Maria Terrace Peckham Camberwell
Jabez Knight 25 Head Married Hatter Warehouseman Frampton Coterel Gloucestershire
Cathrine Knight 30 Wife Married Shoreditch Middlesex
Catherine C Knight 2 Daughter St Georges Surrey
Marriages Mar 1848
KNIGHT Jabez Shoreditch 2 303
Westley Catherine Shoreditch 2 303
By 1861 Jabez was a hatter in Liverpool.
Regards
Valda
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Valda
Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9735
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1841 census HO107 1085/7 folio 16
Northampton Street St George Sothwark
William Knight 50 Feltmaker not born Surrey
Sarah knight 50 not born Surrey
Eliza Knight 20 not born Surrey
Mary Knight 15 not born Surrey
Susanna Knight 8 not born Surrey
Jabez Knight 16 apprentice not born Surrey
Charles Knight 14 not born Surrey
Thomas Knight 10 not born Surrey
next household to Jabez
1851 census HO107 1581 foli0 ?
1 Maria Terrace Camberwell Surrey
William Knight 61 Head Married Hatter Bridgewater Somerset
Sarah Knight 63 Wife Married Winterbourne Gloucestershire
Thomas D Knight 20 Son Warehouseman Frampton Coterel Gloucestershire
William Knight was a widower in 1861 living with his married daughter Sarah Creasey and her husband James and family. James was also a hatter. The family were in West Street Bermondsey on the 1861 census. Sarah was aged 48 and born in Winterbourne Gloucestershire.
Marriages Dec 1840
CREASEY James Henry Newington 4 339
KNIGHT Sarah Newington 4 339
Sarah Knight
Christening: 19 JUL 1812 Winterbourne, Gloucester
Father: William Knight
Mother: Sarah
Possible marriage
WILLIAM KNIGHT
SARAH CURTIS
Marriage: 15 AUG 1808 Winterbourne, Gloucester
Regards
Valda
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