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Author
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Topic: BELLVE Victoria (Read 1010 times)
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Eyesee
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2700
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It is the passengers arriving in Wellington on the Wanganui from Wanganui, and is Estevan. Had seen that one before.
Now that all papers are searchable did a search the other night. There were 2500+ items available by putting in the Bellve name.
Ian C
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CLAPHAM, Leeds and London
TOMLIENS, Herefordshire and Southwark
CLARKE, Sussex, Cambridge and Shropshire
FAULCONER, MANNINGTON, RICHARDSON, TICEHURST, BROOK, ELPHICK, All Sussex
UDY, CLEMENCE/CLEMENTS,WHITE, COITE, COBELDICK, Cornwall
BROOKING, Devon, India
FERNANDEZ, London, Somerset, Herefordshire
RUSH, CARTER, GIBSON, REMINGTON, London and Surrey
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duinnsleibhe
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 20
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Hi
Those New Zealand papers are in very good condition from what i saw! I wish old Australian papers were in such good condition. Happy reading Ian.
Anyway, a mention is made of Estevan's death as well as a brief obituary published in the Feilding Star of June 17, 1896. Page 2.
Also, in the Wanganui Herald on the 2th April, 1893, there is an article which mentions that the Soler family and the Bellve family were friends. The article also mentions Ruis.
Regards
duinnsleibhe
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cando
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 6353
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Ian anything to identify the photographer...on the rear of the photograph perhaps? Many photographs in the 19thC were mounted onto cardboard.
Cando
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regross
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 953
paper doll fashionista
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Hello,
After looking at the photograph could it be possible that the wife had taken refuge in a convent or such? She has been dressed very well and well presented for the viewing and the photograph. This is not something her young son could have organised.
She may also have acted as a housekeeper for a parish priest; as a good catholic there would not have been may respectable jobs she could have done. Life would have been very difficult for her with a young child to care for.
It is also interesting to speculate on who cared for the two Constable boys when their sister went to NZ. They were both quite young.
The IGI has a marriage between Ignasia Bellve and Franco RUI in 1796 in Barcelona. This may well be the connection between the two families.
Certainly seems to be no obvious record of her death or of their marriage.
good luck
Robyn
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Abbott, Barnard, Clarke, Inward, Lanfear, Rutter,Spencer: Middlesex;
Greenaway:Cornwall;
Edney, Godwin/Goodwin, Gullett, Hampshire;
Gullett: Devon:
Emms:39th Regiment of Foot 1810-1832
Gordon, Scotland;
Arnold, Morton: Ireland;
Davies:Wales;
Olcorn:Cumberland;
Osborne: Staffordshire;
Harrington: Kent
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Eyesee
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2700
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Thanks Robyn. Wondered about the convent, as they were RC.
The Constable boys mother was in Melbourne and they would have gone to her probably.
The father William Thomas Constable arrived in Australia after 1851 UK census and before 1858. Family had not heard from him during that time and he was declared dead. Oldest son William Samuel Constable arrived in Australia about that time and found his father still very much alive. Mother Sophia, nee SINDREY, had in the meantime shacked up with a Charles BOURNE in Chatham and they arrived in Australia in 1858, leaving rest of family in England. Emily, Christopher and Robert arrived on Swiftsure in 1862. Elizabeth arrived with husband and son c1869-70. James stayed behind in Chatham.
That could well be the connection as Estevan had contact in NZ with a Joseph RIUS and also a Martin RUIS, They may well have been the same person. Martin RUIS worked for Estevan and Stephen, and was involved in a court case with them. Joseph boarded with them for a while and is buried in the same plot at Feilding Cemetery. Joseph was 60 when he died in 1894.
Ian C
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CLAPHAM, Leeds and London
TOMLIENS, Herefordshire and Southwark
CLARKE, Sussex, Cambridge and Shropshire
FAULCONER, MANNINGTON, RICHARDSON, TICEHURST, BROOK, ELPHICK, All Sussex
UDY, CLEMENCE/CLEMENTS,WHITE, COITE, COBELDICK, Cornwall
BROOKING, Devon, India
FERNANDEZ, London, Somerset, Herefordshire
RUSH, CARTER, GIBSON, REMINGTON, London and Surrey
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tropicalj
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9060
Mason and Callum
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Ian
thanks for posting the photo, and as Cando has asked is there a photographers name on the back please
JEnn
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When you search for ancestors, you find great friends! I live in Townsville, Australia researching TOWNSEND,PINNEGAR, STRANGE, PULLEN, GRIFFIN from Wiltshire,, SHOEBRIDGE, VINALL, BRINDLE, Kent BAYLEY, Dorset,Yorkshire, HAIR, Durham, CUMMINS, BROWNLESS from Yorkshire, EDSALL, Cornwall, MORGAN, HENNESSY, BAKER, Ireland. In Australia Hennessy, Hair, Bayley, Townsend, Shoebridge, Edsall, Adamson, All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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judb
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 900
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
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Hi Ian
If you look at the Australian National Library digitised newspapers site there is a reference (The Argus, Melbourne, 21 August 1872), to Alfred Bullinaria being a messenger and office-keeper at the Royal Mint Melbourne on an annual salary of 150pounds, 'with quarters, fuel and light'.
It's actually on page 5 although the ref says it's on page 4.
Another ref says that "M Bullinaria, just arrived from London" will play a billiards match and the tickets to watch 5s or 2/6 for unreserved seats!
http://ndpbeta.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/home
I cannot see the Bullinaria family in Rochester in 1851. Are they mistranscribed?
Cheers, Judith
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DYER - Wilts, London, Somerset
MIDLANE - Hants, Wilts
SONE - Hants
WRIGHT - London, Hants
SEAGER - Deptford
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Eyesee
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2700
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Sorry no name on the back as far as I know. Not mine from someone else.
Alfred was a billiard marker or ran a billiard hall in Chatham or Rochester. That narrows down the date of arrival a bit.
They are mistranscribed alright. The name Bullinaria was spelt about 12 different ways in the census indexes. Have found most of them. Alfred and Elizabeth were in Rochester I think in 1861. Have them in 1851 somewhere as well. Will look it up later.
Ian C
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CLAPHAM, Leeds and London
TOMLIENS, Herefordshire and Southwark
CLARKE, Sussex, Cambridge and Shropshire
FAULCONER, MANNINGTON, RICHARDSON, TICEHURST, BROOK, ELPHICK, All Sussex
UDY, CLEMENCE/CLEMENTS,WHITE, COITE, COBELDICK, Cornwall
BROOKING, Devon, India
FERNANDEZ, London, Somerset, Herefordshire
RUSH, CARTER, GIBSON, REMINGTON, London and Surrey
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tropicalj
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9060
Mason and Callum
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Ian, is it only family folk lore that the woman in the photo died in Australia? Could it be of someones death bed in New Zealand?
Jenn
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When you search for ancestors, you find great friends! I live in Townsville, Australia researching TOWNSEND,PINNEGAR, STRANGE, PULLEN, GRIFFIN from Wiltshire,, SHOEBRIDGE, VINALL, BRINDLE, Kent BAYLEY, Dorset,Yorkshire, HAIR, Durham, CUMMINS, BROWNLESS from Yorkshire, EDSALL, Cornwall, MORGAN, HENNESSY, BAKER, Ireland. In Australia Hennessy, Hair, Bayley, Townsend, Shoebridge, Edsall, Adamson, All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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Eyesee
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2700
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The photo came from one of the Constable families in Australia to NZ. Although one of the Bellve lines here had a copy as well.
It is not one of the Constable family members, they were all CofE.
Ian C
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CLAPHAM, Leeds and London
TOMLIENS, Herefordshire and Southwark
CLARKE, Sussex, Cambridge and Shropshire
FAULCONER, MANNINGTON, RICHARDSON, TICEHURST, BROOK, ELPHICK, All Sussex
UDY, CLEMENCE/CLEMENTS,WHITE, COITE, COBELDICK, Cornwall
BROOKING, Devon, India
FERNANDEZ, London, Somerset, Herefordshire
RUSH, CARTER, GIBSON, REMINGTON, London and Surrey
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regross
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 953
paper doll fashionista
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Hi,
I agree, the flowers look like camelisas which bloom from around June in Australia.
This would mean perhaps a winter death year still uncertain. How sure are you that she died in Victoria?
Looking at Spanish naming conventions might be useful
http://www.tarver-genealogy.net/aids/spanish/sp_naming_conv.html
"In Spanish-speaking cultures, when a woman marries a man, she does not lose her maiden surname. Additionally, her family name is carried by her children just as her husband's family name is carried forward. "
and is much more complicated than this, for example:
"Even though Maria Cantu Villarreal is married, her death certificate will list a her as Maria Cantu Villarreal, probably adding the comment that she was the wife of Andres Trevino Hinojosa. This custom eliminates the problem frequently encountered in American or British research of trying to find the mother's maiden name. "
A point worth considering is that her death may well have been registered under her maiden name which may be why it does not show up as BELLVE.
good luck
Robyn
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Logged
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Abbott, Barnard, Clarke, Inward, Lanfear, Rutter,Spencer: Middlesex;
Greenaway:Cornwall;
Edney, Godwin/Goodwin, Gullett, Hampshire;
Gullett: Devon:
Emms:39th Regiment of Foot 1810-1832
Gordon, Scotland;
Arnold, Morton: Ireland;
Davies:Wales;
Olcorn:Cumberland;
Osborne: Staffordshire;
Harrington: Kent
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tropicalj
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9060
Mason and Callum
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Good Points robyn , that could be the case but do we know her maiden name as yet? Have I missed reading it, I could do another search if I knew it, allthough I did search Estevan
As Camelias were an introduced specie ( as so much was ) I wonder when that was?
Jenn
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Logged
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When you search for ancestors, you find great friends! I live in Townsville, Australia researching TOWNSEND,PINNEGAR, STRANGE, PULLEN, GRIFFIN from Wiltshire,, SHOEBRIDGE, VINALL, BRINDLE, Kent BAYLEY, Dorset,Yorkshire, HAIR, Durham, CUMMINS, BROWNLESS from Yorkshire, EDSALL, Cornwall, MORGAN, HENNESSY, BAKER, Ireland. In Australia Hennessy, Hair, Bayley, Townsend, Shoebridge, Edsall, Adamson, All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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regross
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 953
paper doll fashionista
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Hi Jen,
I too had looked at Estevan as a surname and as a given name without going anywhere. So far I think that we haven't been given her name only the listing as Estevan Bellve on the shipping records.
Tried looking at the NLA papers for a death notice without success. There seems to be a lot of leeway as to when she may have died as Estevan and Emily didn't marry until the 1880's.
Perhaps she took a vow in a convent and sent her son off to live with his father and didn't die until several years later.
At this stage all ideas are worth considering although researching them is another thing all together.
regards
Robyn
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Logged
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Abbott, Barnard, Clarke, Inward, Lanfear, Rutter,Spencer: Middlesex;
Greenaway:Cornwall;
Edney, Godwin/Goodwin, Gullett, Hampshire;
Gullett: Devon:
Emms:39th Regiment of Foot 1810-1832
Gordon, Scotland;
Arnold, Morton: Ireland;
Davies:Wales;
Olcorn:Cumberland;
Osborne: Staffordshire;
Harrington: Kent
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regross
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 953
paper doll fashionista
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Hi,
Browsing other theads I came across a website for the archives of Presentation Sisters in Windsor, Victoria:
http://www.pbvm.org.au/victoria.html
might be a staring point.
regards
Robyn
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Logged
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Abbott, Barnard, Clarke, Inward, Lanfear, Rutter,Spencer: Middlesex;
Greenaway:Cornwall;
Edney, Godwin/Goodwin, Gullett, Hampshire;
Gullett: Devon:
Emms:39th Regiment of Foot 1810-1832
Gordon, Scotland;
Arnold, Morton: Ireland;
Davies:Wales;
Olcorn:Cumberland;
Osborne: Staffordshire;
Harrington: Kent
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Pages: 1 [2] 3
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If so, they would be obtainable anywhere I suppose. Judith