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Topic: elizabeth and minnie spain (Read 672 times)
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nelwild
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 549
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
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hello,im trying to find marriage or death entries for sisters elizabeth and minnie spain.elizabeth was born 1860 ramsgate and minnie 1879 st lawrence nr ramsgate.ive got them when younger,but cant find what happened to them later.is minnie short for anything?any help greatly appreciated,thanks,nel.
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woody32
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1351
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forget that ..just seen the Census 
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LANCASHIRE = Wood,Howard,,Smethurst,Foxall,Cheetham,Brookes,Grime, Horrocks,Thornley,Arstall,Shawcross,Rowland,Mclean LINCOLNSHIRE = Featherstone Johnson,Toyne,Willson,
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woody32
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1351
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Minnie Lucy Spain b Mar Qtr 1879
Lucy M Spain Marriage
Curtis Samson 1913 Dec Qtr E Ashford 2a 1962 ?
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LANCASHIRE = Wood,Howard,,Smethurst,Foxall,Cheetham,Brookes,Grime, Horrocks,Thornley,Arstall,Shawcross,Rowland,Mclean LINCOLNSHIRE = Featherstone Johnson,Toyne,Willson,
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nelwild
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 549
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
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woody,many thanks,quite a late marriage but it looks very likely,nel.
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woody32
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1351
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Hold on with that..there is another Lucy Minnie Spain on the census ..i will post details when i finish work .
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LANCASHIRE = Wood,Howard,,Smethurst,Foxall,Cheetham,Brookes,Grime, Horrocks,Thornley,Arstall,Shawcross,Rowland,Mclean LINCOLNSHIRE = Featherstone Johnson,Toyne,Willson,
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nelwild
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 549
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
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Hello,
Ive just seen a 1911 census entry for Minnie Spain,and it shows her to be widowed with a young son and living with her mother.
Her married name is Bruhn.
Her son is Victor Wallace Bruhn born 1909.Theres a birth thanet Dec Quart 1908 for a Victor Wallace Bruhn.
I can find no marriage for a Minnie Lucy Spain to anyone of this name,or anything similar.
This name doesnt sound British to me,yet the sons name makes me think of Scotland.
If anyone can find the marriage or tell me who her husband was id be very grateful,
thanks,
Nel.
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casalguidi
Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 11918
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I can see an emigration record for Victor (with wife and children) going to the US in 1948 where next of kin is mother = Mrs M HAZELL of 12 Hudson Road, Portsmouth. I'm wondering if this is a mistake as the maiden name of Victor's wife appears to be HAZELL and see the following http://genforum.genealogy.com/bruhn/messages/161.html
Interesting that Minnie Lucy is PACKER when she dies in the 1940s - I can't immediately see a marriage PACKER to BRUHN or SPAIN either.
Casalguidi
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nelwild
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 549
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
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Casalguidi,
many thanks for the reply.This is becoming very confusing.
On the 1901 census Minnies mother Mary is down as married but her husband William is absent.
With her is Dorothy L Packer born 1894 Margate grand-daughter.
Id originally thought that Packer was a mis-spelling of Parker,as Minnies sister married Oliver Parker j/a/s 1890 thanet,but now im not so sure.
Whats strange about the Annie/Oliver marriage is although it was in 1890,on 1891 hes away and shes with parents and still using maiden name,but this is a seperate puzzle.
If you can help me work out the Packer link id be very grateful,
thanks,
Nel.
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dinkie
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 10
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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hello,I'm trying to find marriage or death entries for sisters Elizabeth and Minnie Spain.Elizabeth was born 1860 ramsgate and Minnie 1879 st Lawrence NR ramsgate.Ive got them when younger,but cant find what happened to them later.is Minnie short for anything?any help greatly appreciated,thanks,Neal.
Hello Elizabeth, i am Minnie Lucy Bruhn,s (nee Spain) granddaughter, Elizabeth married surname was Grey, i too can not find a marriage of either Axial Christian Bruhn to my grandmother, or one to George Martin Packer, my mothers father. Uncle Wally as we called him (First name was Victor) Minnie Lucy died in Bournemouth in the house where i am still living. In 1917 Minnie Lucy was living in the Coach & Horses High Street Winchester, and my mother was born in the Coach & Horses, also uncle Dick ( short for Richard was also born there) There still a lot of Spain,s living in Kent. I found a cousin (whose father was Minnie's & Elizabeth's brother) his name was Walter. I have found a death for a Victor Wallace Bruhn, in Florida. All my details are at home as at the moment i am on holiday. Hope some of this helps, and that you can contact me i do have copies of my grandmothers birth , death, and also my great grandmothers Mary Anne Streeting marriage to William Spain. Best wishes Sylvia
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casalguidi
Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 11918
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What about this one ............... Minnie L LIDGATE married George M PACKER December quarter 1919 Portsmouth registration district ref. 2b 1472 
Casalguidi
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nelwild
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 549
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
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Hello Sylvia,
thanks for the message,this is really exciting for me.
I only recently discovered Minnie Lucys partner was called Bruhn from 1911 census.It shows Mary Ann Spain(nee Streeting) age 70,Minnie Lucy,32,widow and Victor Wallace Bruhn age 2,born Ramsgate.
Id been unable to find any marriage to a Bruhn,so at least you know his first name.Do you know where Axiel and his family where originally from?
Minnie was clearly a young widow,do you know where and when Axiel died?
Ive built up a lot of info on these Spains.
I have Minnies nephew William marrying Lily Mathews in Faversham o/n/d 1909,she was a traveller from Portsmouth,daughter of Walter Mathews and Nancy Collins.
Williams sister Elizabeth married Albert Grey in Swansea 01/11/1916,he was a horse dealer from Wales.Is this who you meant,or did Minnies sister Elizabeth also marry a Grey?
Minnies brother William George married Ann Ditton j/a/s 1877 Cantebury.2nd partner,not married,was Elizabeth OBrien,mother of William and Elizabeth.3rd partner Maud Mary unknown born 1878 Ramsgate.On 1901 hes still with Elizabeth,but on 1911 hes with Maud Mary and the marriage is 10 years old,although ive been unable to find a marriage.
Minnies parents William and Mary Ann Streeting married 24/10/1854 Canterbury.Mary Ann Streeting daughter of Thomas Streeting and Elizabeth Buckley married 25/08/1841 eastchurch.He was a dealer and i believe he travelled,hes in Canterbury on 1851,then vanishes from census until 1881 when he re-appears with Mary Shaw,a hawker.1st wife Elizabeth dies in Canterbury in 1884.He marries Mary Ann Shaw,formerly Brown 15/01/1885 Cranbrook.
William Spains parents Stephen Spain born 1801 and Sophia Mumford born 1801 married 06/12/1820 thanet.
Stephens brother John born 1796 Margate my ggggg grandfather,married Sarah Warner 12/01/1817 thanet.
They had 8 children,one was my gggg grandmother Jane Elizabeth Spain born 1826 margate,married Richard Pain 1845 thanet,they had five children before he died in 1855 at age of 28.
Two sons and a daughter Susannah,my ggg grandmother were abandoned in Thanet workhouse where they are in 1861.Jane Elizabeth is in a boarding house in Whitstable with daughter Louisa,and a new daughter Elizabeth by second partner,never married,Thomas Warner.
Susannah Pain had a child by person unknown,she was my gg grandmother Sarah Amelia Pain.
She also had a child at the age of 15 by person unknown,she was my ggrandmother Emma Jane Payne(Pain)
Emma Jane had an illigitimate child,Margaret(meg) jane Payne,before she married my ggrandfather Nelson Camburn.
Because of all this illigitimacy and lack of marriage ive really struggled with my line,even on Genesreunited theres hardly anything.
I have a lot of wider family info,particularly in the Stephen Spain line.Have you posted enough times to use PMs,if so ill use that in future.
I look forward to any other info youve got,
all the best,
Nel.
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nelwild
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 549
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
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Hello Casulguidi,
many thanks,that looks intresting and appears to fit apart from the surname Lidgate,i wonder where that comes from?
Maybe there was a brief marriage to a Lidgate between 1911 and 1919,or maybe Axiel Bruhn used the name Lidgate as well.I wonder if Sylvia can throw any light on it.
Im going to have a look and see if i can find anything.
Thanks again,
Nel.
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dinkie
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 10
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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What about this one ............... Minnie L LIDGATE married George M PACKER December quarter 1919 Portsmouth registration district ref. 2b 1472 Casalguidi
Hello Nel, so thrilled to get a reply from you so soon. This is my first attempt on Roots, i am still learning about my laptop, so would it be ok to reply to me on the same email address you used ths time please, as i do not understand what PMs is. Sorry about this. Somewhat confused about Elizabeth, as on the grave stone of william George Spain (horse dealer) was in loving memory of my parents. Following that was the names Albert & Elizabeth Grey, we knew there was some sort of falling out and that Elizabeth had moved away, so my cousin and i believed this was, Minnie,s sister, that married Albert Grey. So really confused now.
If William was Minne,s nephew who was his father and mother?
Mary Ann , got a photopostcard from Mabel (Granddaughter) from Walthenstow, saying the shop had opened , the shop sold crockery and all sorts with the name, of Mrs H Spain above the door, as the owner, there are two young ladies on the doorstep of the shop, and one of them looks like me. I took a long time to find Mabel, years, but finally found her. Most of my information is at home. I have been buying certificates for years, and have them filed in certificate folders.
The Spain family owned Newington Villas, St Lawrence, which are still there, as i have been with my cousin to see them. The big house that William Spain & Mary Anne had built is no longer there sadly. I too am on genes united and have not found out much either, also on find my past, have been on that about three years now.
You.ll have to excuse me but my granddaughter is coming , and we do not see her very often as she lives three hours drive away, so i will have to get off, so please forgive me. bye for now Sylvia
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nelwild
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 549
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
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Sylvia,
many thanks for getting back again.
Ive got to go out tonight and wont be at the computer tomorrow but will send you some info on Sunday including hopefully an explanation of the inscription on the grave.
Ive got so many questions id like to ask and info i want to share,im just so pleased ive found someone from the Spain family whos obviously a keen researcher.
PMs are personal messages.This means we can chat about family without using the public boards which are mostly for research purposes.I think you need to post three times before you can use PMs so if these are your first two messages,one more should do it.
Ill send a message on Sunday,
all the best for now,
Nel.
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