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Author Topic: Seymour marriage  (Read 102 times)
damarshall
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Posts: 112
Seymour marriage
« on: Thursday 16 July 09 19:14 UTC (UK) »
I am confessed on this marriage.

I have a the real document of a marriage to Albert Henry Seymour and Sarah ann Draper in 1912 at St Andrews Church Enfield. May 19th 1912.

I looked on the 1911 and found the above saying that they had been married 6 years .
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PaulineJ
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Re: Seymour marriage
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 16 July 09 21:06 UTC (UK) »
With only a portion of the info, then I don't think we can make any useful observation.

For instance:
What are the details on marriage age/occupation/residence/ parents
what are the 1911 census details? age/birthplace/occupation etc...

Pauline
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All census look up transcriptions are Crown Copyright
======================================
Brown 1800-> Woolwich (Kent)  Barnett 1800-> Woolwich (Kent)
Pannifer 1830-> Deptford (Kent)  Brierley in Staffordshire(Pre-1875)
Walters in Middlesex(Pre-1875)  Clift,Gould in Devon/Cornwall

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damarshall
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Posts: 112
Re: Seymour marriage
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 16 July 09 21:29 UTC (UK) »
On the 1911 records
Albert Seymour Married age 29 rag Dealer born Edmonton middlesex
Sarah Seymour was Draper married 6 years Enfield Middlesex
Willian seymour age 3

On the real document
May 19th 1912
Albert Henry seymour age 28 Labourer lived at 15 Burlington road, father albert seymour passed way Labourer.

Sarah ann Draper 28 laundress 1 sawyers cottage ,Father James draper passed away Horse keeper.

On Alberts death records that i have.
2nd sept 1931 Albert Henry seymour age 48 General delaer they live at 78 a Raynham road Edmonton Middlesex
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PaulineJ
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Re: Seymour marriage
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 16 July 09 21:34 UTC (UK) »
Why no address for 1911?
What is sarah & william's stated birthplace?
How many kids of this marriage were delared?

what witnesses at marriage?

Pauline
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All census look up transcriptions are Crown Copyright
======================================
Brown 1800-> Woolwich (Kent)  Barnett 1800-> Woolwich (Kent)
Pannifer 1830-> Deptford (Kent)  Brierley in Staffordshire(Pre-1875)
Walters in Middlesex(Pre-1875)  Clift,Gould in Devon/Cornwall

http://www.freecycle.org/display.php?region=United%20Kingdom
Valda
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Re: Seymour marriage
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 16 July 09 21:40 UTC (UK) »
Hi damarshall

I'm confused now about which Albert Seymour you are interested in.

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,392500.0.html


If this Albert Seymour and his wife Sarah married later then they are not going to admit on a census form they are unmarried and any children they had are illegitimate. They are just going to move the date of their yet to happen marriage forward to cover the births of any of their children. This is what people do and did. They don't necessarily tell the truth if they can avoid it, if the truth is in anyway inconvenient to them.


Regards

Valda
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damarshall
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Posts: 112
Re: Seymour marriage
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 16 July 09 21:46 UTC (UK) »
James looks like Turner  for his lasted name and a Alice Bentley are witnesses

And in 1911 they lived at 6 Gilpin Grove Upper edmonton.
And children they had

They has 7 children
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damarshall
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Posts: 112
Re: Seymour marriage
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 16 July 09 21:51 UTC (UK) »
Valda
This is the second Albert Seymour i am talking about now.I have the real Marriage certificate.It was in a box given to me.

I have never been able to fine a birth for him BUT on the 1881 census Albert is showing up as a grand child from the othe posting
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PaulineJ
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Re: Seymour marriage
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 16 July 09 21:58 UTC (UK) »
You say the 1911 census have 7 kids, but you've only given details of one...
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All census look up transcriptions are Crown Copyright
======================================
Brown 1800-> Woolwich (Kent)  Barnett 1800-> Woolwich (Kent)
Pannifer 1830-> Deptford (Kent)  Brierley in Staffordshire(Pre-1875)
Walters in Middlesex(Pre-1875)  Clift,Gould in Devon/Cornwall

http://www.freecycle.org/display.php?region=United%20Kingdom
Valda
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Posts: 9734
Re: Seymour marriage
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 16 July 09 22:34 UTC (UK) »
Hi

This is the Albert from the other posting who married Elizabeth Sarah Barrington

Births Jun 1874   
Seymour  Albert     Edmonton  3a 209

1881 census RG11 1388 folio 12
7 Claremont Street Edmonton
Henry Seymour 47 Head Married Wood Joiner journeyman Edmonton Middlesex
Mary Ann Seymour 32 Wife Married Enfield Middlesex
Walter Seymour 10 Son Tottenham Middlesex
Edith Seymour 8 Daughter Tottenham Middlesex 
Albert Seymour 6 Son Tottenham Middlesex 
Ernest Seymour 2 Son Edmonton Middlesex
Maria Seymour Daughter Edmonton Middlesex   

The Albert Seymour you are interested in this posting you say was aged 29 on the 1911 census and therefore would have a birth year of circa 1881/1882 - chances are not even born in time for the 1881 census and certainly not a grandson with the first Albert family then. On the 1891 census Harry/Henry Seymour does have a grandson called Albert in the family. His age looks to be 7 but it could be 9. Albert his uncle would therefore have been between 7 and  10 when he was born. The fact on his marriage Albert junior gives Albert as the name of his father who has conveniently passed away leads you back to the fact that people don't always tell the truth when it is inconvenient to them and illegitimacy is one of the strongest reasons for not telling the truth on official documents. Albert junior if he was illegitimate and could get away with it was not going to tell the officials at his marriage and anyone else he didn't have to that he didn't have a legitimate father - hence Albert Seymour (his own name) as his father.

If he was born illegitmately that might be the reason why his birth is difficult to find. The birth might not have been registered or it was registered but in another surname - his father's as a legitimately registered birth, though his parents were not married - not a truth therefore they/ the mother would have shared with the registrar and not necessarily a relationship that stood the test of time.


Regards

Valda
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