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Author Topic: Riddle/Smith London Gypsies cud he be a boxer?  (Read 177 times)
wendyBan
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Posts: 38


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Riddle/Smith London Gypsies cud he be a boxer?
« on: Thursday 25 June 09 20:19 UTC (UK) »
From looking at the 1861 census  I have found my great great grandfather was a Gypsy living at a Gypsy encampment in Latimer road Hammersmith.  His  name is Thomas Riddle and was born in 1846 in Camden town.  I have also found him in the 1881 census in a caravan in Kennsington as a Tinker.  Does anyone know what these sites would have been like in London at this time?  Did Gypsies record their marriages lawfully as I havent been able to find his marriage in BMD eventhough in the 1881 census it says he is married to 'Lizer', nor have I found his children recorded under births.
On Thomas Riddles death certificate it says he was formerly a professional athlete, now I know he was a gypsy and a Tinker I'm wondering if he could be a boxer not an athlete as we know it.  Does anyone know of any boxing records where I could expore this theory.
Gemma
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mc8
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Posts: 934
Re: Riddle/Smith London Gypsies cud he be a boxer?
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 25 June 09 20:33 UTC (UK) »
You might find these useful
http://www.bbc.co.uk/london/content/image_galleries/boxing_people_places_gallery.shtml
http://www.nfa.dept.shef.ac.uk/history/shows/boxing.html
http://www.prewarboxing.co.uk/
Monique
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
CitizenSmith
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Posts: 143


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Riddle/Smith London Gypsies cud he be a boxer?
« Reply #2 on: Friday 26 June 09 13:22 UTC (UK) »
Hi Gemma

The area of London where you found Thomas in 1871 and 1881 is well-known for its Gypsy encampments. It used to be known as Notting Dale (the old name of London's Notting Hill) and as the Potteries, because of the many brickfields there.

If you try Googling 'Potteries' plus 'Notting Hill' or 'Gypsies', you'll discover many references - including a description of the area by George Borrow dating from 1864, here: www.globusz.com/ebooks/Romano/00000039.htm

On the marriage question: you're right. Not all Gypsy marriages took place officially in church or register offices. They held their own ceremonies which held as much importance to them but obviously went unrecorded.

Similarly, the births of children may not have been registered - but you're more than likely to find that they were baptised. So if you have birthplaces for them from census returns, try looking at the baptismal registers of neighbouring churches.

Best wishes

Sharon
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Smith - East Anglia & Lancashire
Taylor - East Anglia
Draper
Hope
Shaw
Gray
Boswell
Lovell
Robinson
Chilcott
All Blackpool Gypsies
"Royal Epping Forest Gypsies": ball-giving group
CitizenSmith
RootsChat Member
***
Posts: 143


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Riddle/Smith London Gypsies cud he be a boxer?
« Reply #3 on: Friday 26 June 09 13:27 UTC (UK) »
Hi again Gemma

On Notting Dale/Hill again: you could also try getting in touch with Mary Horner who runs the Romany Road site. Her Hearn family lived in that area and she's done a lot of research into its history: www.romanyroad.co.uk/notting-dale/4523968029

Sharon
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Smith - East Anglia & Lancashire
Taylor - East Anglia
Draper
Hope
Shaw
Gray
Boswell
Lovell
Robinson
Chilcott
All Blackpool Gypsies
"Royal Epping Forest Gypsies": ball-giving group
wendyBan
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 38


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Riddle/Smith London Gypsies cud he be a boxer?
« Reply #4 on: Friday 26 June 09 16:49 UTC (UK) »
Thanks so much thats given me a few avenues to research.  Until I found they were gypsies Id been going mad trying to find them in the BMD. That makes more sense now.
Gemma
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