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Topic: assistance with wedding image please (Read 293 times)
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eilidh
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 732
Peenie
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Hello
I have purchased a 1920 wedding image on SP. Husband James McLeish was bachelor, wife Mary Donaldson widow both RC.
But in the column where-when & how married it states by Declaration in the presence of John McLeish coalminer and Elizabeth Donaldson also McLeish (brother and sister in law)
In the column if irregular it states Warrant of Sheriff - Substitute of Lanarkshire
Can someone please explain why this wasnt a normal church wedding and why a Sherriffs warrant?
Many thanks for any assistance
bye
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CATER, Braintree, Colchester & Leek
CHIVAS, Fraserburgh Scotland, Canada, USA
DIGBY, Braintree, Colchester, Essex
DONALDSON, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Canada, USA
McKIE, Kirkudbright,Wigton, Whithorn
PICKERING, Leek, Staffordshire
SHALLCROSS, Leek, Staffordshire
STONEHEWER, Leek, Staffordshire
TIDESWELL, Leek, Staffordshire
VERNON, Leek, Staffordshire
WALKER, Holywood
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 8787
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Hi eilidh
Excellent post here with JAP's responses on this topic.
www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,336469.0.html
Monica 
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire. Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll. Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire. Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan. McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland. Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland. ..........and lots of Spanish name interests........ Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 8787
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Also from another RC post :
Irregular marriages were legal in Scotland until 1st July 1940 and could be registered by obtaining a Justice of the Peace's or Sheriff's warrant. These show up in marriage certificates as marriage 'by declaration' or by 'warrant of sheriff substitute'.
From http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/SCT-EDINBURGH/2006-08/1156284811, a further explanation:
There were two types of marriages in Scotland the 'regular' and the
'irregular.' The regular marriage was done by a clergy member of the Church.
An irregular marriage was not. Irregular marriages were by exchange of
promises before witnesses, by betrothal and consummation, or by cohabitation
and repute, and were forms of marriage recognised by Scots Law, yet may have
taken place without any official record of the event.
In a 'warrant of sheriff substitute' a couple would go to the office of the
local Sheriff (Sheriff-Substitute) with two witnesses. The form of
contract generally adopted was a simple written declaration of acceptance of
each other as husband and wife before two witnesses - and that form was
often drawn up by the Sheriff's office. The Sheriff (or his representative)
would then issue a "warrant" (certification of the marriage) which the
couple would present to the Registrar who would officially record the
marriage and issue a certificate.
Monica
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire. Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll. Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire. Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan. McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland. Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland. ..........and lots of Spanish name interests........ Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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eilidh
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 732
Peenie
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Hello Monica
Thank you for all that information, very much appreciated.
Now that's a puzzler for me why they didnt marry in Church 
bye
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CATER, Braintree, Colchester & Leek
CHIVAS, Fraserburgh Scotland, Canada, USA
DIGBY, Braintree, Colchester, Essex
DONALDSON, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Canada, USA
McKIE, Kirkudbright,Wigton, Whithorn
PICKERING, Leek, Staffordshire
SHALLCROSS, Leek, Staffordshire
STONEHEWER, Leek, Staffordshire
TIDESWELL, Leek, Staffordshire
VERNON, Leek, Staffordshire
WALKER, Holywood
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WiggyHobbes08
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 328
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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'Mixed marriage'? Already had a child together? Parents didn't approve? 'Romeo and Juliet' scenario, and families weren't talking? We have one of the above reasons in our family!
Does make you wonder doesn't it.
Cheers, 
Wiggy
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Gaunt, Ransom, McNally, Stanfield, Kimberley. (Tasmania Australia)
Brown, Johnstone, Cumming, Cunningham, Crawford, Jack (Dumfriesshire, Lanarkshire, Scotland)
Percy, Dunning, (Devon, England)
Convicts of First/Second Fleet.
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sancti
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1815
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Perhaps they didn't practice their religion. Do you know if any children were baptised?
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tootsiepie
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 332
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Were both parties at home address? Just thinking they may still have been in transit from WW1. Maybe both of them were still a long way from home.
Cynical thought. If the young chap had been a soldier, maybe he no longer believed in God.
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Flynn,Cox, Slaven-Co Longford
Donnelly,McGeown,Hughes,McCrory- Co Armagh
Hargan,Curran,Bradley,Grant,Peoples ,Patton,Dunn-Donegal
Conway,Degnan,McDonald,Cassidy,Kelly,Fenmore,Ryans,Kilkenny,Murray-Ireland/England/Scotland
Reeves,Fox,Williams-Shropshire/Staffordshire/Scotland
Gill,Kane-I.O.M/England/Scotland
Murdoch,Bruce,Rankine,Ballantyne-Ayrshire
McCutchen,McAdam,Wright-Kirkcudbright,Dumfries,Ayrshire
And others
Plus all variations in spellings
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Lodger
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 252
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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The explanation is probably much more down to earth - I had an ancestor in the same situation, she had been widowed in WWI and left with 4 young children. By 1921 she was in another relationship and married by Sheriff warrant in 1922. One week after that marriage she had another child.
As far as I know, they held off as long as possible so that she could still draw her war-widow's pension, this would cease on her re-marriage. It would have been her only source of income - no state handouts in those days.
Don't forget just how desperate women like this were in the aftermath of the war, the 1920s were hard and they had one choice, re-marry or starve.
so, no fairy-tales, no romance, just survival.
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eilidh
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 732
Peenie
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Hi,
Apologies to everyone for my late response, few family problems not on line for a while.
Both parties were RC, mother had two children from first marriage, her first husband killed in action 1915. So Lodger your comments regarding holding off to draw the war widows pension would be correct.
Thank you for all your input
bye
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CATER, Braintree, Colchester & Leek
CHIVAS, Fraserburgh Scotland, Canada, USA
DIGBY, Braintree, Colchester, Essex
DONALDSON, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Canada, USA
McKIE, Kirkudbright,Wigton, Whithorn
PICKERING, Leek, Staffordshire
SHALLCROSS, Leek, Staffordshire
STONEHEWER, Leek, Staffordshire
TIDESWELL, Leek, Staffordshire
VERNON, Leek, Staffordshire
WALKER, Holywood
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