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Topic: Arthur Baines - My G Grandfather (Read 314 times)
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markandjo
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 22
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I am trying to find out who my GG Grandparents were and more information about Arthur Baines. I have found him in Hamworthy, Dorset on the 1901 census where his place of birth is given as Kensington, London, born abt 1872. His first son's name was Arthur George William and as George was his father-in-law, I wonder if William was his father???
However on the 1881 census, the closest I can find was Arthur Baines living at Gordon Road Workhouse, Peckham, Camberwell, with brothers Alfred & Frank (their father's name given was John). Is there any way of finding records for workhouses? and is there a way to check birth records from Kensington if you don't have the exact birthdate or parent's name?
Thanks.
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Tati
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 24955
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Hi Markandjo,
Sorry, not really what you were asking for but I think I've possibly managed to trace the 'workhouse children' back to 1871.
1871
RG10/676 134 4
Lambeth, London
15 Little Bolton St
John Baines, head, 45, Map Mounter, b. St Dunstans
Hannah, wife, 38, b. St Olaves
William, son, 20, Newsmonger, b. St Lukes
Walter, son, 12, b. St Annes
Frederick, son, 7, b. St Giles
Edward, son, 10, b. St Pancras
Alfred, son, 4, b. Surrey Battersea
Francis, son, 10 mo, b. Surrey Lambeth
(oddly, back in 1861, the baby age 2 weeks is Frederick RG9/175 121 13)
I can't see a birth registration for Arthur in Kensington around 1872. Does he give Kensington as his birth place in 1911 as well? Do you have Arthur's marriage cert? What does it say about his father?
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"My dear, I think the English pronounce it 'appiness" Desire and hunger is the fire I breathe Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Valda
Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9773
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Hi
As Tati has asked - what information does Arthur give about his father on his marriage?
Marriages Jun 1896
Baines Arthur Poole 5a 567
either
Flipping Elizabeth Poole 5a 567
or
Matthews Elizabeth Allen Poole 5a 567
Is his birthplace on the 1911 census consistant with the 1901 census?
http://www.1911census.co.uk/
From the 1911 census index the age he gives on that census is 40. What age did he give on his marriage certificate?
Because a child is in a workhouse at the age of 9 it isn't really evidence that he was born in that workhouse. The Arthur in Camberwell workhouse in Surrey in 1881 has as his father name John, a picture frame maker. There is as it happens one Baines picture frame maker in 1881 who also happens to be in Camberwell. He appears to be the eldest son of John and Hannah.
1881 census RG11 673 folio 49
2 Mary Ann Place South St Camberwell Surrey
William John Baines 29 Head Married Picture frame maker St Lukes Middlesex
Mary Celia Baines 31 Wife Married Bethnal Green Middlesex
William John Baines 6 Son Kennington Surrey
George Joseph Baines 4 Son Camberwell Surrey
Thomas Albert Baines 2 Son Camberwell Surrey
Charles Robert Baines 6 weeks Son Camberwell Surrey
This couple didn't marry until 1874
Marriages Jun 1874
Baines William John Lambeth 1d 462
Goyder Mary Celia Lambeth 1d 462
Regards
Valda
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markandjo
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 22
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi
Thanks very much for the replies and information. On the 1911 census Arthur is aged 40 and gives his birthplace just as London.
Ok, on the marriage certificate to Elizabeth Flipping dated 5 Apr 1896 his age is given as 23. His father's name is John Baines a carpenter. So at least that confirms John and not William as his father. I guess William followed his dad into the trade, a map mounter sounds similiar to a picture framer.
Thanks Tati for finding the 1871 census, I've tried for ages without success! I'm only new to this!
Many thanks again.
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Valda
Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9773
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The Arthur Baines son of John and Hannah is likely to be this birth registration
Births Dec 1872
BAINES Arthur Lambeth 1d 461
His parents marriage
Marriages Sep 1850
Baines John Bermondsey 4 7
Banks Hannah Mary Bermondsey 4 7
Hannah's death registration
Deaths Sep 1878
BAINES Hannah Mary 48 Camberwell 1d 505
A bit to old on the 1891 census but workhouses were not always factually accurate with their records
1891 census RG12 363 folio 112
Newington Workhouse St Saviour's Union Southwark
John Baines 73 Widower Pauper inmate Picture frame maker City of London
There is a John Banks a lodger on the 1881 census in Southwark, a Picture Frame Maker (Carver Fitter), aged 53 born the City.
Regards
Valda
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Valda
Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9773
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Morning Tati
I did the same with 1891 and found an Arthur Barnes with a suspicious dot for an i born Lambeth aged 21? (349 folio 76) in Southwark. He is with a grandmother, Ann Dashwood, who I can't place. He's probably the son of John Baines the boiler maker in Lambeth in 1871 (whose sons were all map mounters in 1871 which seems a rather strange coincidence).
Regards
Valda
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jadey21
RootsChat Pioneer
Posts: 1
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi there, I wonder if this can be any help to you...
I have always been facinated with the history of my family home so I decided to look into its history as the house came with alot of old paperwork and details of the former families. The House is in Penn Hill, Poole Dorset (very close to Hamworthy, Poole) I believe it was build in the early 1900's by a Mr Whittingham for his daughter, she sold it in 1919 to a Mr Arthur and Ruth Elizabeth Baines of Weston Hills, Spalding. My mum seems to think Mr Baines was a debt collector, there is a very large old safe in the downstairs hallway where he was believed to have kept the money. According to the records they had three daughters Eva Kathleen Baines and Mary Bloomfield Baines who both never married and lived in the house untill their deaths in 1970 and 1984, the 3rd sister Muriel Mavis East who, at the time of Eva's death in 1970 lived at High Beech Clifton Road Chesham Bois Amersham Buckinghamshire. After Marys Death in 1984 the house was left to their house keeper and later sold on to us.
I wonder if any of this matches with any of your research, I would love to know, good luck!
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Valda
Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9773
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Hi
This is the couple you are interested in Lincolnshire
Marriages Jun 1901
BAINES Arthur Spalding 7a 926
Snell Ruth Elizabeth Spalding 7a 926
Births Mar 1903
Baines Mary Bloomfield Spalding 7a 393
Births Sep 1905
BAINES Muriel Mavis Boston 7a 407
Births Jun 1910
BAINES Eva Kathleen Spalding 7a 396
You'll be able to find the couple and their family on the 1911 census in the Spalding district
http://www.1911census.co.uk/
and the Lincolnshire board can help you track them back further. A potential candidate for Arthur on the 1901 census appears to be a grocer in Weston Lincolnshire.
Regards
Valda
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markandjo
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 22
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Jadey21 & Valda
Thanks, but this Arthur Baines doesn't match my family. My great grandfather was a mariner not a debt collector & he married Elizabeth Flipping in 1896 in Poole. It's a great story though!
I still haven't been able to find dates of death for either Arthur (born 1872) or Elizabeth Baines (born 1875) in Dorset. Their daughter Winifred (my grandmother) got married in 1929 and I know they opposed her marriage which is why I have so little information on them.
Thanks again
Jo
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