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Topic: hit a brick wall and have been stuck for over a year can any one help? (Read 1409 times)
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tobin
RootsChat Member
Posts: 111
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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hi there
ive previously asked for help on this person about a year or so ago and am so desperate i am trying again to see if anyone out there can offer advice on where to go now.
nathaniel hall is my 3 x gt grandfather all census and his marriage/death cert dates his birth to being around 1829 in newcastle upon tyne,my problem is i can not find him on any census before his marriage to a catherine turnbull on the 26th august 1854.on his marriage cert he names his father as nathaniel hall a butcher.and on all census after his marriage he claims that he was born in newcastle upon tyne.in the census 1861-his death he is living in the byker area,where he died on 31 august 1906.
there is a nathaniel hall born 1804 in newcatle upon tyne a butcher who could possibly be the nathaniel my 3 x gt grandfather refers to but i cannot link them together,by the time of the 1941 census nathaniel born 1841 is a widow living with his step siblings,i have researched this nathaniel in the hope of linking them but found nothing that would suggest him being the father,i even sent for his will in the hope he mentions a son called nathaniel but it doesnt he left everything to his only daughter.
its as though my 3 x gt grandfather didnt exsist until his marriage.the name nathaniel has been carried down through the generations and my 3 x gt grandfathers son nathaniel was a butcher,so it would seem to be a family name and business...can anyone offer any advice please?
Moderator Comment: Duplicate posts on this topic removed.
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« Last Edit: Saturday 27 June 09 15:49 UTC (UK) by sillgen »
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hall,bowey,turnbull,danby -northumberland
speechley,lakey,ayres,anker,bedford -cambs and huntingdon
warrener and cope -nottingham
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jacques
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1160
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Hello Tobin
have you ruled this on out
1851 @ Bedlington Northumberland Ref HO 107/2418 page 53
Ann Scope Head 65 Householder Born Newcastle upon Tyne
Mary Witton Visitor 50 Dressmaker America
William McConal " 26 Coppersmith Gateshead durham
JAMES HALL " 22 Boilersmith Newcastle upon Tyne
Pam
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Wragg Sheffield/Rotherham Noble Sheffield/Derby Kirk Sheffield/Northumberland Lenton Sheffield Ward Deryshire Twigg Derbyshire All Census Data included in this post is Crown Copyright(see www.nationalarchives.gov.uk) |
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jacques
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1160
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Hello again Tobin
on 1841 Census there is this entry at Willial Street Byker Newcastle
John Stephenson 30 Shipwright All Born in Co of northumberland
Mary " 25
JAMES HALL 10
Margaret HALL 8
is this a possibility ?? you mentioned Byker for a later date.
I suppose you have seen these on IGI
Marriage 5th Nov 1829 @ St John Parish Newcastle
Nathaniel Hall and Ann Hackworth
Birth Nathaniel Hall 18 March 1804 Bap 29 April 1804 @ Gosforth Northumberland
Parents Edward Hall and Elizabeth Twizell
Any relation??
Pam
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Wragg Sheffield/Rotherham Noble Sheffield/Derby Kirk Sheffield/Northumberland Lenton Sheffield Ward Deryshire Twigg Derbyshire All Census Data included in this post is Crown Copyright(see www.nationalarchives.gov.uk) |
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tobin
RootsChat Member
Posts: 111
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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hi
thankyou to the moderator for deleting the duplicate posts,it kept saying there was a problem in posting it so i tried 3 times and then all three showed up together..
thankyou pam for the census entries you sent..i hadnt seen those entries ,the entry for the marriage between nathaniel hall and ann hackworth i had seen and had sent for the marriage cert and i also traced this nathaniel in all census and his birth records etc...as i was convinced this was my nathaniel 1829s parents but i cant find anything to link nathaniel 1829 to this nathaniel born 1804,i even sent for his will but he left everything to his daughter isabella.though nathaniel 1829 also named his daughter isabella..
patsy
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hall,bowey,turnbull,danby -northumberland
speechley,lakey,ayres,anker,bedford -cambs and huntingdon
warrener and cope -nottingham
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tobin
RootsChat Member
Posts: 111
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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hi heywood
i just checked the certificate again and both nathaniel and catherine used the x to sign the register and the witnesses were thomas doig and william wilson.they were married at all saints newcastle upon tyne,nathaniel a rope maker(which he continued till his death )both were living at byker bar,and the marriage performed after banns.
patsy
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hall,bowey,turnbull,danby -northumberland
speechley,lakey,ayres,anker,bedford -cambs and huntingdon
warrener and cope -nottingham
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tobin
RootsChat Member
Posts: 111
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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hi ivan thanks for that and no i hadnt seen that tree,,but i would say thats someone who ive had contact with through genesreunited as everything on the tree on ancestry is word for word what ive written on my genes tree....and as i said earlier in the post i was convinced nathaniels parents were nathaniel 1804 and ann hackworth so i added all the info and census etc of them into my genes tree in the hope i would find the link to prove that they were his parents ,,but as i say i cant find anything to link them,and on my tree i do state that details of his parents are not confirmed.
i just need to find that one link to prove nathaniels parents were nathaniel and ann but with the absence of nathaniel on any census for 1841-51 and no birth/christening records i am at a lost how if ever i will be able to do this.the other children born to nathaniel and ann were found on the census either with nathaniel 1804 or with anns mother,but no mention of my nathaniel born c1829.
patsy
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hall,bowey,turnbull,danby -northumberland
speechley,lakey,ayres,anker,bedford -cambs and huntingdon
warrener and cope -nottingham
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tobin
RootsChat Member
Posts: 111
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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another thing that concerns me with the connection is that nathaniel and ann was married on 5th november 1829 so if nathaniel was born 1829 ann must have already given birth or been heavily pregnant and had nathaniel within weeks of the marriage as i can find a christening record for a son they had called edward (nathaniels fathers name) giving the date of christening as 8th september 1830,so ann would have fallen pregnant with him soon after her marriage.
i can connect two other children with nathaniel and ann (though i can find no christening for them ) but they are in the 1841-51 census with nathaniel there father and they were thomas twizell (the twizell being nathaniels mothers maiden name)born c1833 and isabella born c1836 and nathaniels will leaves all his belongings to his daughter isabella, surely if nathaniel was a child of nathaniel and ann he would have been with his siblings in the census of 1841-1851
patsy
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hall,bowey,turnbull,danby -northumberland
speechley,lakey,ayres,anker,bedford -cambs and huntingdon
warrener and cope -nottingham
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audrey
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3748
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this is the only Nathaniel I can find it might be worth a look
Nathaniel Hall born 6.8.1846
christ.30/8/1846 at St.Micheals Ashton Under Lyne.Lancs
father James Hall
mother Catherine
Audrey
sorry did not read the first meesage right wrong date
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audrey
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3748
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this one relates to Nathaniel ?
Edward Pearson Hall born 8 /9/1830.
christ at St Nicholas Church Newcastle
father Nathaniel Hall
mother Ann
audrey
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WolfieSmith
RootsChat Member
Posts: 150
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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A probable earlier child of Nathaniel and Ann :
Elisabeth Hall Hackworth, baptised 13 May 1829, Gateshead. Parents - Nathaniel (occupation Ironmonger) and Ann, of St. Andrews Parish Newcastle. It was common for a child of unmarried parents to be given the fathers surname as a middle name.
There is also a birth and death on FreeBMD of a Nathaniel George Hall in Newcastle, both Jun qtr 1839. I'd take a gamble on the birth cert If it turns out that Nathaniel and Ann are his parents, then its unlikely that they had an earlier surviving son called Nathaniel. Although your Nathaniel could be Nathaniels son from an earlier relationship.
Alan.
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