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Author Topic: Family history is thoroughly corrupted  (Read 2318 times)
Guy Etchells
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Re: Family history is thoroughly corrupted
« Reply #30 on: Monday 29 June 09 07:00 UTC (UK) »

I have been doing family history research for over 50 years and I have at least one tree/database with well over 11,000 names on it.
I have others with around 2,500 names.
None of my trees have been grabbed from the web in fact most of the research was done before the internet was invented and much even before the IGI was invented.

My online trees do not show sources simply because the programs used at the time did not have the facility to show sources (even though they held them).
I may eventually re-upload my online trees with sources but this takes time and I have other more pressing things to do.

As far as I am concerned an online tree is simply a guide to what records may be available. If the researcher who uses any online resource cannot be bothered to check then that is their look-out.

Eventually new comers to family history (including those who have only used online sources) will realise that many if not most sources contain errors.
Even official sources (census, births, marriages deaths, baptisms burials etc. etc. contain errors and must be checked against other sources.
Only when a number of different sources of information have been assembled can the possibilities be weighed and a conclusion reached.

Family history research involves balancing the accuracy from many secondary sources as virtually no primary sources exist.
Even where a primary source exists it is only a primary source for a small proportion of the information it contains.
Cheers
Guy
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Lesanne
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Re: Family history is thoroughly corrupted
« Reply #31 on: Monday 29 June 09 07:54 UTC (UK) »

Hello Guy & Joe..

I can understand Guy, you don't want to start the mammoth task of thousands of sources  Roll Eyes that would take another 50yrs +  Tongue  Tongue
         
                       Any new data, just a name, even 'self' or TBC (to be confirmed) would stop wholesale copying and let people new to our 'addiction' see the justified entry.

Best wishes,
Lesanne.
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Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Berks Bucks Oxon= Norris Coxhead Turner Cox Weston Baston Simpson
Kent= Nicholls Mepstead Watts   Mile End=Craze Wood Bennett
Cork=Howe   NZ=Coxhead   Canada=Fenn Cox Turner
kerryb
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Re: Family history is thoroughly corrupted
« Reply #32 on: Monday 29 June 09 08:20 UTC (UK) »

I'm sure some people would simply ignore TBC  Roll Eyes

Someone once said, not sure if it was on here that if it is on the web it must be true - NOT!  Grin

Kerry
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Searching for my family - Baldwin - Sussex, Middlesex, Cork, Pilbeam - Sussex, Harmer - Sussex, Terry - Surrey, Kent, Rhoades - Lincs, Roffey - Surrey, Traies - Devon & Middlesex & many many more to be found on my website .... www.kerrysfamilyhistory.co.uk
Lesanne
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Re: Family history is thoroughly corrupted
« Reply #33 on: Monday 29 June 09 08:31 UTC (UK) »

  Cheesy  Hi kerry,  Yep, they have.... and added the futher 3 generations..... after I'd put TBC... cause they've copied the lot  Shocked  Shocked and it's all wrong family....  Grin

   Well, I'm NOT gonna tell them....  Kiss

     OOO.. is that naughty of me.
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Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Berks Bucks Oxon= Norris Coxhead Turner Cox Weston Baston Simpson
Kent= Nicholls Mepstead Watts   Mile End=Craze Wood Bennett
Cork=Howe   NZ=Coxhead   Canada=Fenn Cox Turner
Nick29
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Re: Family history is thoroughly corrupted
« Reply #34 on: Monday 29 June 09 08:35 UTC (UK) »

I'm sure some people would simply ignore TBC  Roll Eyes

Yes, they do !  I added two "possibles" to my tree, and clearly put "NOT CONFIRMED - COPY AT YOUR OWN RISK" in the details.

Within a month, three people had copied it.  I think this is partially the fault of Ancestry - their hints only show the basic "facts", and not the actual page containing them.

The bottom line is, of course, that hobbies mean more to some than to others.  Some people have a train layout, and are quite happy to watch a plastic model go round and round in circles for hours, whilst others have to build everything themselves, exactly to scale, and exactly to period and region.  They both probably get the same amount of pleasure from it.

For most of us, genealogy is just a hobby, and we all have our own ways of doing things.  My tree currently stands at around 5,500 names, and the accuracy of the data in my tree really depends on how far you stray from the main branches.  When I hit "dead ends", I will often look down branch lines, to see if I can pick up any clues.  I have also researched the branches of cousins at their request, but I draw the line on obtaining certificates for their family, so they're not fully verified either.  Now, that may fit in with the ways of some others, but I'm not doing it for them - I'm doing it for me, and I'm not forcing anyone to look at my tree.  I think we spend far too much time in this country worrying about what other people are doing  Roll Eyes



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Best Wishes, Nick.

Research interests:
Field - Luton & Islington
Hole - Somerset, Suffolk & Surrey
Farnish, Parker, Cattermole, Last, Wasp, Church - Suffolk
Lewin/Lowin/Lowen - Hertfordhire
Martin - Eltham & Greenwich, Kent (London)
Stead - Greenwich, London (Kent) & Maidstone
Wood - Hertfordshire

Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
MarkyP
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Re: Family history is thoroughly corrupted
« Reply #35 on: Monday 29 June 09 13:15 UTC (UK) »

Everyone has made some really good points, but as Nick has pointed out, it is basically a hobby for most people! It is done for your own pleasure or gratification and as long as you do what you think is right for your own tree, then no one can fault you. However, if you choose to show it off to the world, you have to accept the consequences and be prepared for other people to disagree with your findings, hence the reason for having sources to back up anything you have. You also have to accept that the same people might just plunder all your hard work for their own. It has been happening since the beginning of time, either through the spoken language or the written word, it is what people do! Future genealogists will have to sift through all the various family trees done by different branches of the same family and decide which is the right one, lets hope they choose yours!  Grin
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Parsons - Surrey, Somerset and Devon
mongoose2
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Re: Family history is thoroughly corrupted
« Reply #36 on: Monday 29 June 09 18:59 UTC (UK) »

I recently had some corresponence with a fellow off GR. It was quite obvious from the emails that it was the correct family however there was one difference. A marriage back before civil registration for a Jacob Chandler and an Ann.

Mine was Vanes and his was Banes, so I asked him "why the difference?" his reply was that he had been to a genealogical fayre and purchased a one name study and he had trouble reading the tree compilers handwriting!!

I pointed out the marriage on the IGI and he said how did we know they had copied the record accurately. No way of knowing I said I wasnt there. At least now we can share but its true just keep checking

Barry
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Guy Etchells
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Re: Family history is thoroughly corrupted
« Reply #37 on: Monday 29 June 09 19:04 UTC (UK) »

Hello Guy & Joe..

I can understand Guy, you don't want to start the mammoth task of thousands of sources  Roll Eyes that would take another 50yrs +  Tongue  Tongue
          
                       Any new data, just a name, even 'self' or TBC (to be confirmed) would stop wholesale copying and let people new to our 'addiction' see the justified entry.

Best wishes,
Lesanne.

It is not as simple as that.
My database contains in most cases multiple sources for one item of information.
For example a birth entry may be sourced from a birth certificate plus a baptism register, a school register, various census, family sources etc.
Due to the limitations of the old family history programs many of the sources had to be entered into the notes field rather than into a sources field.
This means that to include those sources online I would have to delete pages of text that form the other notes. On top of this would be more time checking that I had not made a mistake whilst doing that.

It could be done but it would take an immense amount of time which could be devoted to other matters.
Perhaps a future generation will have the free time to convert my databases to a future proof  format, I do not.

In many cases though showing sources would simply make internet users less likely to actually check the particular source as they would take the record at face value as the source had been shown.
Cheers
Guy


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wildtech
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Re: Family history is thoroughly corrupted
« Reply #38 on: Monday 29 June 09 22:52 UTC (UK) »

Compared to many on this site I still feel a novice when it comes to family history but here's what I think. 

My tree contains about 1100 individuals.  I started with a fairly small inherited tree with few sources.  I have done my best to verify all the original information and all new dates etc I have tried to confirm from at least two sources.  Because I live about 300 miles from my ancestors historical stamping ground I have had to do virtually all this from the internet.  I can't afford subscriptions to the big sites nor to obtain certificates for every event.  I have therefore used free sites and developed `constructive` index searches of the big sites then taken a couple of free trials and blitzed the records.  When information has come just from the index I say so in the source citation.

I have my tree on the web and am happy for any one to view it.  If someone finds they are related and wish to copy my tree - fine, after all I got 99% of the information for free!  If they then copy people and get it wrong that's their problem.  Would I be upset? possibly - most likely probably - but having chosen to make my tree available to the public that is something I will have to face. 

I have found other trees on the net to which I have connections and have contacted the owners and gained permission to add those individuals.  This I do along with their site as a source AND wherever possible a reference to the original source which I have checked. 

As for the propagation of what has been termed corruption I hope my methods do not contribute to this.

As with all of life their will be a number of people, usually a minority, who will want to get something for nothing or pass off the work of another as their own.  Personally I am happy in the knowledge that what I have done and posted on the net is as factual and correct as I can make it.  If anyone points out a mistake I will respond and correct it.  If someone then plagiarises it and gets it wrong I have the original and can say "that's not what I put" but quite honestly would it be worth the effort? let them live in their ignorance
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Nick29
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Re: Family history is thoroughly corrupted
« Reply #39 on: Tuesday 30 June 09 15:13 UTC (UK) »

Well said.  I don't think any of us would get very far without the work of others, so it's good to give something back.

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Best Wishes, Nick.

Research interests:
Field - Luton & Islington
Hole - Somerset, Suffolk & Surrey
Farnish, Parker, Cattermole, Last, Wasp, Church - Suffolk
Lewin/Lowin/Lowen - Hertfordhire
Martin - Eltham & Greenwich, Kent (London)
Stead - Greenwich, London (Kent) & Maidstone
Wood - Hertfordshire

Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Siamese Girl
RootsChat Veteran
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Posts: 656



Re: Family history is thoroughly corrupted
« Reply #40 on: Tuesday 30 June 09 16:46 UTC (UK) »

I still haven't put any of my ancestors information into a programme - it all just exists on bits of paper stuffed into folders. Honestly - there's too much of it and I can't face all the effort and I'm also banking on paper outliving any computer software.

Mind you, it hasn't stopped me from seeing my research appearing on someone's website. I sent them the information in the days before computers, so it cost time AND money. I didn't get any thanks then and no acknowledgment on their website either ....

Carole
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CHILD Glos/London, BONUS London, DIMSDALE London, HODD and TUTT Sussex,  BONNER and PATTEN Essex, BOWLER and HOLLIER Oxfordshire, HUGH Lincolnshire, LEEDOM all.
joboy
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I really am


Re: Family history is thoroughly corrupted
« Reply #41 on: Tuesday 30 June 09 23:17 UTC (UK) »

I still haven't put any of my ancestors information into a programme - it all just exists on bits of paper stuffed into folders. Honestly - there's too much of it and I can't face all the effort and I'm also banking on paper outliving any computer software.
Carole
Carole,
you really should make a start by entering at least your direct line of ancestors into a programme.
Quite a number of subscribers to this topic (me included) did exactly as you are doing ... visits to the LDS/FHC and burial grounds and similar with a 'dog eared' note book and badly written notes ........ waiting until a viewer was available only to find that the film you needed was in use by someone else and your time allocation had run out.
Those old 'bits of paper' will eventually die if you dont put them into something reasonably secure.
I look at my old notes occasionally and think about all the time that I spent in those days that could have been spent on other things that were more pressing ... at least they were to my dear wife.
Make a start ... and add the other little bits as you are able.
Joe
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Guy Etchells
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Re: Family history is thoroughly corrupted
« Reply #42 on: Wednesday 01 July 09 06:44 UTC (UK) »

I would advise you to put your research on a computer as quickly as possible, it is at risk.

I totally agree that paper will (if stored correctly) outlast current computers & programs, but digital information can be transferred from system to system.
I first compiled my computer data on a Commodore 64, transferred it to a Commodore Amiga and eventually on to a PC.

The great value of digital data is it can be easily spread to different locations. This spread provides safety in case of disaster.

If you had a fire or flood or other similar event your work could be lost forever.
Digital copies (though not being able to replace the original documents) could provide copies of those documents.

In addition digital copies are easier to search, store and share and all may be taken with you when on research trips.
Digital does not replace paper records but augments them.
Cheers
Guy
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mike175
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Re: Family history is thoroughly corrupted
« Reply #43 on: Wednesday 01 July 09 08:19 UTC (UK) »

Drifting off-topic a little, I think the biggest advantage for me of storing my data in a computer is the discipline it introduces into my work, creating order out of chaos  Roll Eyes

It's easy to spot missing people, sources, etc. and also to correct errors that have crept in (mostly from other people's work!) without having to completely re-draw a tree.

BUT . . . I print out hard copy of everything as well because in the longer term it is arguably more permanent. I know you can upgrade data to new formats as they arise, but it might not be so easy to retrieve the family history from that old Sinclair Microdrive tape that you discover in your late uncle Fred's effects. Far easier to read his handwritten or printed work, and you don't even need any special equipment . . . except perhaps the reading glasses  Wink

Mike.
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Baskervill - Devon, Foss - Hants, Gentry - Essex, Metherell - Devon, Partridge - Essex/London, Press - Norfolk/London, Stone - Surrey/Sussex, Stuttle - Essex, Wheate - Middlesex/Essex/Coventry/Rutland/Oxfordshire/Staffs, Gibson - Essex
Siamese Girl
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Re: Family history is thoroughly corrupted
« Reply #44 on: Wednesday 01 July 09 09:31 UTC (UK) »

I think it would take years for me to do  Sad  And probably drive me even more mad!  Grin

I also do a lot of family history type research on the life and times of the C18th diarist Parson James Woodforde and all of that is on computer AND backed up - so I'm not a complete troglodyte. I think  in the greater scheme of things, that is much more valuable work than my own family's history.

Carole
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CHILD Glos/London, BONUS London, DIMSDALE London, HODD and TUTT Sussex,  BONNER and PATTEN Essex, BOWLER and HOLLIER Oxfordshire, HUGH Lincolnshire, LEEDOM all.
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