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Topic: Trubshaws of Uttoxeter? (Read 323 times)
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Maggie1895
RootsChat Member
Posts: 138
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I don't really expect anyone can help on this, but if they can it would be marvellous.
Researching my husband's family tree for him I have found his great grandmother was Emma Trubshaw. Emma was born in Hungary in 1871, but listed as a British citizen, which presumably means that her father was British. (She later married Thomas Kerry)
Her first appearance in Britain is with her mother, Elise, who was born c.1852 in Seine Infericoure in France, and her younger sister Ellen, born c.1873.
They are shown in the 1881 census living in Uttoxeter, and Elise is widowed.
For a Frenchwoman, widowed, with her daughters born in Hungary, to be living in Uttoxeter suggests to me that her husband's family are from there, and it does seem to be a local name.
Try as I might I can't find any reference to identify Elise's husband / Emma's father.
Does this ring any bells with anyone on the Staffordshire board?
Thanks for reading this,
Maggie
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Arranroots
Global Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 10929
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Hi Maggie
Have you got Emma's marriage certificate? What does it say about her father, if so>
Kind regards, Arranroots 
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Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SOM: BIRD, BURT aka BROWN HEF: BAUGH, LATHAM, CARTER, PRITCHARD GLS: WEBB, WORKMAN, LATHAM, MALPUS WIL: WEBB, SALTER RAD: PRITCHARD, WILLIAMS GLA: RYAN, KEARNEY, JONES, HARRY MON: WEBB, MORGAN, WILLIAMS, JONES, BIRD SCOTLAND: HASTINGS, CAMERON, KELSO, BUCHANAN, BETHUNE/ BEATON IRELAND: RYAN (WATERFORD), KEARNEY (DUBLIN), BOYLE(DUNDALK) |
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Maggie1895
RootsChat Member
Posts: 138
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Thanks Arranroots,
Unfortunately not - don't even know if they married in England or in France. I've tried searching for any marriage involving as Elise in the 5 year prior to the first child's birth and can't find any reference in the UK, which is why I tend to think the marriage took place abroad.
Have considered the British Consul route for a Hungary birth certificate but that's a complicated option.
Today is a long shot, but you never know - someone with a Staffordshire connection might have heard some old family story about a French wife and a Hungarian job!
Maggie
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Arranroots
Global Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 10929
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No, I meant Emma's marriage:
Marriage
Sep quarter 1892
Emma Mary TRUBSHAW
Thomas KERRY
Ashborne 7b 969
The cert would give her father's name and occupation, with a bit of luck.
Edited to add: Elise's place of birth is Seine Inferieure (lower Seine district)
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Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SOM: BIRD, BURT aka BROWN HEF: BAUGH, LATHAM, CARTER, PRITCHARD GLS: WEBB, WORKMAN, LATHAM, MALPUS WIL: WEBB, SALTER RAD: PRITCHARD, WILLIAMS GLA: RYAN, KEARNEY, JONES, HARRY MON: WEBB, MORGAN, WILLIAMS, JONES, BIRD SCOTLAND: HASTINGS, CAMERON, KELSO, BUCHANAN, BETHUNE/ BEATON IRELAND: RYAN (WATERFORD), KEARNEY (DUBLIN), BOYLE(DUNDALK) |
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Maggie1895
RootsChat Member
Posts: 138
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I feel a complete idiot! Thank you, of course you meant Emma, not Elise. Sometimes you miss what's under your nose all along (well, I do anyway).
Thank you for your tact in wording your second message so politely!
Maggie
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Arranroots
Global Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 10929
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No probs, Maggie - its the heat, lol!
I'm trying to read whereabouts in Hungary the girls are born - my geography of that area isn't great!
At any rate, if you can identify the father from the marriage cert, then you might find a death cert for him and other goodies!
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Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SOM: BIRD, BURT aka BROWN HEF: BAUGH, LATHAM, CARTER, PRITCHARD GLS: WEBB, WORKMAN, LATHAM, MALPUS WIL: WEBB, SALTER RAD: PRITCHARD, WILLIAMS GLA: RYAN, KEARNEY, JONES, HARRY MON: WEBB, MORGAN, WILLIAMS, JONES, BIRD SCOTLAND: HASTINGS, CAMERON, KELSO, BUCHANAN, BETHUNE/ BEATON IRELAND: RYAN (WATERFORD), KEARNEY (DUBLIN), BOYLE(DUNDALK) |
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ricky1
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 13495
Mum & Dad
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Hi AR
Could it be SIEBENBÜRGEN
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bgwiehle/siebenburgen/sb-places.htm
ricky
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Harby,Garton,Drury,Duncombe,Booth,Catton,Barker, Kirkby, Wilson. Lincolnshire, Also Murkin's, Jeffery,Pettitt,Carter, from Suffolk/Cambridgeshire boarder Census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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Arranroots
Global Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 10929
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Nice one Ricky!
I see that by 1891 Elise has become Elsie (!) and it says she was born in France but is a British subject.
RG12 P 2753 F 36 P 24 - Ashbourne, Derbyshire
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Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SOM: BIRD, BURT aka BROWN HEF: BAUGH, LATHAM, CARTER, PRITCHARD GLS: WEBB, WORKMAN, LATHAM, MALPUS WIL: WEBB, SALTER RAD: PRITCHARD, WILLIAMS GLA: RYAN, KEARNEY, JONES, HARRY MON: WEBB, MORGAN, WILLIAMS, JONES, BIRD SCOTLAND: HASTINGS, CAMERON, KELSO, BUCHANAN, BETHUNE/ BEATON IRELAND: RYAN (WATERFORD), KEARNEY (DUBLIN), BOYLE(DUNDALK) |
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Arranroots
Global Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 10929
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They've moved again by 1901
RG13 P 3537 F 8 P 7 - Southport, Lancashire - so not just a Staffordshire problem, it seems!
By now Ellen is the schoolteacher (vice her mother in 1891) and two KERRY nieces are among the boarders!
Both Elise and Ellen have the middle name Virginie/ Virginia.
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Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SOM: BIRD, BURT aka BROWN HEF: BAUGH, LATHAM, CARTER, PRITCHARD GLS: WEBB, WORKMAN, LATHAM, MALPUS WIL: WEBB, SALTER RAD: PRITCHARD, WILLIAMS GLA: RYAN, KEARNEY, JONES, HARRY MON: WEBB, MORGAN, WILLIAMS, JONES, BIRD SCOTLAND: HASTINGS, CAMERON, KELSO, BUCHANAN, BETHUNE/ BEATON IRELAND: RYAN (WATERFORD), KEARNEY (DUBLIN), BOYLE(DUNDALK) |
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Maggie1895
RootsChat Member
Posts: 138
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Thank you both so much!
The Southport and Lancashire connection makes complete sense - my husbands family is mainly Lancashire way back, and his grandmother Netta, Thomas and Emma's daughter (4th of their 5 children) was born in Ditton in Lancashire and married George Whitehead in 1923 in the Ormskirk district - the Whiteheads having been Southport for several generations.
I'm taking 2 lessons from this - firstly, that it's so easy to get hung up on complicated solutions and overlook the bl-- obvious, ie that Emma's marriage certificate will almost certainly give her father's name, and second - to remember that names change and to keep widening the search parameters! The Elise to Elsie change is almost certainly why I hadn't found them later.
Really appreciate all the help,
Maggie
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Arranroots
Global Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 10929
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You're welcome Maggie
Do you have access to the census, or do you wish the full details?
I can't find a death or remarriage for Elise ...
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Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SOM: BIRD, BURT aka BROWN HEF: BAUGH, LATHAM, CARTER, PRITCHARD GLS: WEBB, WORKMAN, LATHAM, MALPUS WIL: WEBB, SALTER RAD: PRITCHARD, WILLIAMS GLA: RYAN, KEARNEY, JONES, HARRY MON: WEBB, MORGAN, WILLIAMS, JONES, BIRD SCOTLAND: HASTINGS, CAMERON, KELSO, BUCHANAN, BETHUNE/ BEATON IRELAND: RYAN (WATERFORD), KEARNEY (DUBLIN), BOYLE(DUNDALK) |
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Maggie1895
RootsChat Member
Posts: 138
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I've got access to the census and thanks to the references you've given me I've found them. As Elise Trubshaw has become transcribed as Elsie Tinbshaw in my search (ancestry) I would never have found them without your help.
Thanks so much - the people on this board are generous as well as skilled!
Maggie
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Arranroots
Global Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 10929
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Can I tempt you? Elise Virginie is in Ormskirk in 1911 - I'd love to know what she says there!!
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Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SOM: BIRD, BURT aka BROWN HEF: BAUGH, LATHAM, CARTER, PRITCHARD GLS: WEBB, WORKMAN, LATHAM, MALPUS WIL: WEBB, SALTER RAD: PRITCHARD, WILLIAMS GLA: RYAN, KEARNEY, JONES, HARRY MON: WEBB, MORGAN, WILLIAMS, JONES, BIRD SCOTLAND: HASTINGS, CAMERON, KELSO, BUCHANAN, BETHUNE/ BEATON IRELAND: RYAN (WATERFORD), KEARNEY (DUBLIN), BOYLE(DUNDALK) |
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Maggie1895
RootsChat Member
Posts: 138
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How could I resist when you have given me so much of your time and expertise?
Ellen is 38, single, and the Principal of the Private School. Elise is living with her, and lists herself as a Widow, age 59. There are 2 Boarders age 17 and 12, and one female servant.
The places of birth have changed slightly - Elise now lists her birth as Honfleur, in France, and gives her own nationality as French, not British.
Ellen is British, as to be expected, and her place of birth is still difficult to read, so headmistresse's writing was as bad as the census enumerators!
Ellen lists her birth as Hungary, then a word that looks like Resisent, with another word overwritten, perhaps by an official. That looks like Viizakena, Vizakens, Vizalena or Vizlaens.
I already had the 1911 census for Emma, by now Emma Kerry, showing my husband's grandmother Netta as an 11 year old girl. Emma's entry listed her birth as Hungary, Austria (just to confuse everyone). The Kerrys are living at Hough Green, near Widnes.
Thank you again for all the help, in one afternoon I've taken giant steps forward.
Maggie
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Arranroots
Global Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 10929
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Thanks for humoring me!
I was hoping that they might have accidentally filled in Elise's marriage and children details, but the places of birth are some compensation - not that they actually seem to help very much!
Do let us know if you crack this one eventually!
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Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SOM: BIRD, BURT aka BROWN HEF: BAUGH, LATHAM, CARTER, PRITCHARD GLS: WEBB, WORKMAN, LATHAM, MALPUS WIL: WEBB, SALTER RAD: PRITCHARD, WILLIAMS GLA: RYAN, KEARNEY, JONES, HARRY MON: WEBB, MORGAN, WILLIAMS, JONES, BIRD SCOTLAND: HASTINGS, CAMERON, KELSO, BUCHANAN, BETHUNE/ BEATON IRELAND: RYAN (WATERFORD), KEARNEY (DUBLIN), BOYLE(DUNDALK) |
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