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Topic: Looking for William Scott last seen in Manchester in 1901 (Read 584 times)
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mgscott
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 96
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I'm not very adept as using the diferent tools availalbe for ancestry hunting thru English records. I do have a ancestor, William Scott, born Nov 9, 1851 in Nawhouse, Lilliesleaf Parish, of the Scotland Border Country. I know he married a Janet (formerly Smith; born about 1864 Westmorland, Bowness, Cumbria) and that they were living in 36 Stockton Street, Moss Side, Mancester, Lancashire in the 1901 Census with their children William (born about 1882 Scotland) and James (born about 1884 Scotland).
I know nothing more. Any help appreciated.
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Scott-Ettrickbridge, Ashkirk
Stutt-Boyhill, Fermanagh
Newton-North Plantagenet(CAN), Ireland
Grieve-Roberton, Lilliesleaf
Hodgins-Cloughjordan, Tipperary
Elliot-Canonbie, Bogra, Holmhead, Annan, Egremont
Little-Canonbie, Kingsbridgeford, Thirlwall, Wallasey
McAlister-Louth Co., Queen's Co.
Smith-Whitehaven
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suzard
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 10261
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It doesn't look like janet was the mother of William and James
If you notice in 1901 there was a stepson Henry Smith age 11 b Manchester lancs
and Mother in law Catherine Smith
but I think janet's maiden name was Jackson
There is Birth reg freeBMD
Mar qtr 1864
Janet Sylvia proctor Jackson
Kendall
10b 604
Marriage FreeBMD
Dec qtr 1888
Kendall
William Smith
janet Silvina P Jackson
10b 1063
Marriage reg FreebMD
Dec qtr 1900
Barton I
William Scott
Janet Silvina P Smith
8c 985
So was Catherine Smith William smith's mother ?
all this tells us is that William Scott was in lancashire from 1900
Suz
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Thornhill, Cresswell, Sisson, Harriman, Cripps, Eyre, Walter, Marson, Battison, Holmes, Bailey, Hardman, Fairhurst Noon-mainly in Derbys/Notts-but also Northampton, Oxford, Leics, Lancs-England Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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mgscott
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 96
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Wow, you are amazing. Thanks so much.
Now, for your questions. Here's my thoughts.
If Janet was born a Jackson and married a Mr X. Smith just before 1890 (when Henry was born) then Henry would be her son and Catherine Smith would be Mr X. Smith's mother.
Next....
Since Henry Smith is younger than the other young men, William Scott (born about 1882) and James Scott (born about 1884) it stands to reason that Janet Smith (nee Jackson) is not the mother of William and James...
Therefore, William Scott (born 1851) was a widower when he married the widow Janet Smith (nee Jackson) likely in Manchester sometime between 1890 and 1901.
What do you think? Am I on the right track or have I completely missed some pertinent pointers (which is very likely)?
Merv
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Scott-Ettrickbridge, Ashkirk
Stutt-Boyhill, Fermanagh
Newton-North Plantagenet(CAN), Ireland
Grieve-Roberton, Lilliesleaf
Hodgins-Cloughjordan, Tipperary
Elliot-Canonbie, Bogra, Holmhead, Annan, Egremont
Little-Canonbie, Kingsbridgeford, Thirlwall, Wallasey
McAlister-Louth Co., Queen's Co.
Smith-Whitehaven
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suzard
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 10261
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You are on the right track - but I had given you birth and marriage reg
Janet Sylvia proctor Jackson's birth was registered Mar qtr 1864 in Kendall registration district
This means she was born sometime between end of Dec 1863 and end march 1864
then her marriage to William Smith was registered Dec qtr 1888 Kendall
they must have moved to Lancashire soon after their marriage, as son Henry was born in Lancs
Janet then married William Scott -marriage registered in Dec qtr 1900 n Barton I reg district
Barton I is Barton Upon Irwell district and covers part of lancashire
So William Scott and janet had only been married a few months when the 1901 census was taken
Catherine Smith was most likely the mother of William Smith -but I haven't found her on earlier census yet.
So we are only certain that William Scott was in lancashire from 1900 (when he married janet)
So to find him in 1891 he could be in Scotland or England -or some other place
Suz
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Thornhill, Cresswell, Sisson, Harriman, Cripps, Eyre, Walter, Marson, Battison, Holmes, Bailey, Hardman, Fairhurst Noon-mainly in Derbys/Notts-but also Northampton, Oxford, Leics, Lancs-England Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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suzard
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 10261
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Possibly Janet Sylvia ProctorSmith (nee jackson) was William's 3rdwife ??
This looks like it could be William in 1891 - occupation matches
1891
39 Cranbrook Grove Shelford lancs
(this address comes within barton I reg district - the district where William and Janet's marriage was registered)
William Scott head M 39 Horticultural Builder's Foreman Scotland
Mary wife 32 Scotland
Euphemia W daughter 12 Garston Lancs
Jane Hogg Scott daughter 10 Garston lancs
William son 9 scotland
James M son 7 scotland
RG12 3158 19 32
then in 1881
Banks Rd Garston Lancs
William Scott head m 29 Joiner horticultural Scotland
Isabella wife 27 scotland
Euphemia daughter 2 garston lancs
jane daughter 11mth garston lancs
Andrew young boarder U 24 Joiner Scotland
RG11 3719 95 48
so did he marry isabella then mary then janet 
Or was Isabella really isabella mary and she used 1st name in 1881 and middle name in 1891 census
there is an isabella Mary Scott died in Lancs towards end of 1891??
Suz
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Thornhill, Cresswell, Sisson, Harriman, Cripps, Eyre, Walter, Marson, Battison, Holmes, Bailey, Hardman, Fairhurst Noon-mainly in Derbys/Notts-but also Northampton, Oxford, Leics, Lancs-England Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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suzard
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 10261
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this looks like Janet with 1st husband William Smith and son - he is Henry smith in 1901 - but looks like he was using his middle name -as he was Willam Henry Smith (probably too many William's in the household in 1901!!!!)
1891
46 Pickford St
Lancs
James Smith head m 49 Wood Cutter Old Haulton
Catherine wife 49 Castleton Westmorland
William son Married 24 Groom Coachman Willington
Gennet daughter in law married 26 dressmaker Bowness Westmorland
William H Grandson 1 Manchester lancs
RG12 3158 115
(it is not unusual for Janet to be writtenas Gennet/Jennet/jeanett)
then there is a death reg
William Smith age 29
Mar qtr 1896
Barton Under Irwell
8c 447
Suz
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Thornhill, Cresswell, Sisson, Harriman, Cripps, Eyre, Walter, Marson, Battison, Holmes, Bailey, Hardman, Fairhurst Noon-mainly in Derbys/Notts-but also Northampton, Oxford, Leics, Lancs-England Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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suzard
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 10261
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These are the birth reg's of the 2 girls -possiblr daughters of William Scott
Euphemia Wintrup Scott
W Derby
Sept qtr 1878
8b 611
Jane Hogg Scott
Jun qtr 1880
W Derby
8b 660
(West Derby reg district covers part of lancashire - especially Liverpool area)
Marriage reg FreeBMD
Jun qtr 1900
Chorlton
Euphemia Wintrup Scott
Hugh Randal McNeill
8c 1665
in 1901 the girls were together
1901
5 bold St
Stretford lancs
Hugh McNeill Head M 30 Tailor's Cutter Manchester lancs
Euphemia wife 22 Liverpool Lancs
Jeanie scott sister in law U 20 Liverpool
RG13 3667 36 13
Suz
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Thornhill, Cresswell, Sisson, Harriman, Cripps, Eyre, Walter, Marson, Battison, Holmes, Bailey, Hardman, Fairhurst Noon-mainly in Derbys/Notts-but also Northampton, Oxford, Leics, Lancs-England Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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mgscott
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 96
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Wow. Suz you are amazing. It's morning here on the west coast of Canada and I woke up to all this new information. What can I say. Thanks so much.
It will take me some time to go thru this new info but from a first glance I can add a few tidbits. Firstly....I do know that the mother of our William Scott (who was born 1851, Nawhouse, Sco) was Jane Hogg. So....we know his daughter, Jane Hogg Scott, is named after her grandmother.
It is a mystery to me whether Isabell and Mary are one in the same or two different wives?
in your 13:57 posting you list the 1881 census at 46 Pickford Street where Catherine was 49, Gennet 26 and William 1 and so on. But the ages all seem to be off by 10 years. Could this have been the 1891 census at Pickford St?
also, if you give me the index numbers i could order the certificate for the Isabella Mary Scott who died in Lancs towards end of 1891 although a bit costly to determine if she was married to our Wiliam Scott?
And thanks to Migky for confirming William and Janet still at Stockton St late 1910 and early 1912. What was your source for that? A 1911 census? I'm such a rookie I'm not sure what all is used in this ancestry hunting business.
Amazing finds. Thanks so very much.
Merv
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Logged
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Scott-Ettrickbridge, Ashkirk
Stutt-Boyhill, Fermanagh
Newton-North Plantagenet(CAN), Ireland
Grieve-Roberton, Lilliesleaf
Hodgins-Cloughjordan, Tipperary
Elliot-Canonbie, Bogra, Holmhead, Annan, Egremont
Little-Canonbie, Kingsbridgeford, Thirlwall, Wallasey
McAlister-Louth Co., Queen's Co.
Smith-Whitehaven
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suzard
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 10261
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hello merv,
Well spotted - my 13;57 posting should have read 1891
The census ref tells you what year it is from 1861 - 1901 the first part of the ref is RG followed by a number
RG9=1861, rg10=1871, RG11=1881, RG12=1891, RG13=1901
Suz
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Thornhill, Cresswell, Sisson, Harriman, Cripps, Eyre, Walter, Marson, Battison, Holmes, Bailey, Hardman, Fairhurst Noon-mainly in Derbys/Notts-but also Northampton, Oxford, Leics, Lancs-England Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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mgscott
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 96
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I never knew those linkages. thanks muchly.
Merv
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Logged
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Scott-Ettrickbridge, Ashkirk
Stutt-Boyhill, Fermanagh
Newton-North Plantagenet(CAN), Ireland
Grieve-Roberton, Lilliesleaf
Hodgins-Cloughjordan, Tipperary
Elliot-Canonbie, Bogra, Holmhead, Annan, Egremont
Little-Canonbie, Kingsbridgeford, Thirlwall, Wallasey
McAlister-Louth Co., Queen's Co.
Smith-Whitehaven
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suzard
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 10261
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Death reg FreebMD
Isabella mary Scott
age 37
Dec qtr 1891
Fylde
8e 471
this is the death reg I was thinking of - it would fit Isabella age wise - but I am now very doubtful that it is William's Isabella
My reasons
1891 census there is Isabella Mary Scott unmarried daughter of Walter Scott - of correct age - living in Fylde reg district
so it seems we can cross that one off
There is a death reg freeMD
Isabella Scott
age 28
Mar qtr 1884
W Derby
8b 274
age is a little out.
Maybe Isabella and Mary are 2 separate wives- Isabella is age 27 in 1881
mary is 32 in 1891
both born Scotland
I'm just checking something else out
Suz
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Thornhill, Cresswell, Sisson, Harriman, Cripps, Eyre, Walter, Marson, Battison, Holmes, Bailey, Hardman, Fairhurst Noon-mainly in Derbys/Notts-but also Northampton, Oxford, Leics, Lancs-England Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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suzard
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 10261
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I had found a marriage reg
FreeBMD
Jun qtr 1871
Clitheroe
2 male 2 female on same page
Elizabeth walters
Isabella Atkinson
John atkinson
william Scott
8e 369
may be a possible marriage but there are more than 1 William/Isabella Scotts
If you were able to purchase one of the girls birth certs -(£7 from G.R.O.) then you would get the maiden name of mother .
If you could find where the boys were born and could get a certificate - or even find baptisms for them -then that would help.
Shortly after having the girls they must have moved back to Scotland - I wondered if Isabella died there and then William remarried to mar before moving back to lancashire?
I've notced your post on Scotland board - I am afraid I cannot help much with Scottish look ups
It may be worth trying to find the birth reg or baptisms of the 2 boys???
Suz
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Thornhill, Cresswell, Sisson, Harriman, Cripps, Eyre, Walter, Marson, Battison, Holmes, Bailey, Hardman, Fairhurst Noon-mainly in Derbys/Notts-but also Northampton, Oxford, Leics, Lancs-England Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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mgscott
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 96
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hello Suz. I agree....Isabell and Mary may be different wives for this William Scott. I hope nothing sinister is going on? A researcher's nightmare or a puzzle solver's delight?
I'll take your advice and order their daughter Jane Hogg Scott's birth certificate in the hope it sheds some light on this? Thanks so much for sending me her index numbers.
As for the boys born in Scotland I'd love to order a birth reg.....if I can figure out which to order?
Could you enlighten me on how you found Jane Hogg Scott's birth GRO index numbers? what service you used and how? I'm having a terrible time trying to duplicate your search in order to learn how better to do searches.
Merv.
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Scott-Ettrickbridge, Ashkirk
Stutt-Boyhill, Fermanagh
Newton-North Plantagenet(CAN), Ireland
Grieve-Roberton, Lilliesleaf
Hodgins-Cloughjordan, Tipperary
Elliot-Canonbie, Bogra, Holmhead, Annan, Egremont
Little-Canonbie, Kingsbridgeford, Thirlwall, Wallasey
McAlister-Louth Co., Queen's Co.
Smith-Whitehaven
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