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Author Topic: Can a Change in Faith bring a Change of Name?  (Read 550 times)
halfasheep
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Re: Can a Change in Faith bring a Change of Name?
« Reply #15 on: Friday 03 July 09 10:09 UTC (UK) »
I would point out that I have a Patsy in my family who appears as Patrick on all the census returns. However, his birth certificate states his given name was actually Patsy (as does his death certificate). Son of Irish immigrants, so it may be worth searching for a birth under the name Patsy as well.

Personally, I thought my family had gotten the name wrong when telling me about him, but the certificate definately states Patsy
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rossliv
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Can a Change in Faith bring a Change of Name?
« Reply #16 on: Friday 03 July 09 11:19 UTC (UK) »
Hi

sorry doublechecked and Patrick 1851  is Head

Do You know what the parents of Phebe are called?  Is there a surname Lucas connection anywhere?
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masgrace
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Re: Can a Change in Faith bring a Change of Name?
« Reply #17 on: Friday 03 July 09 18:05 UTC (UK) »
rossliv - Phebe was a WHITEHOUSE. No known LUCAS connection (even with her siblings, who are well documented). The Patrick/Phebe combination is unusual (especially McD), so I can't help feeling the Wood Street entry is them, but somehow misrecorded. We'll never know.

Thanks for checking.
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heywood
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Re: Can a Change in Faith bring a Change of Name?
« Reply #18 on: Friday 03 July 09 19:13 UTC (UK) »
Quote from: masgrace on Friday 03 July 09 18:05 UTC (UK)
rossliv - Phebe was a WHITEHOUSE. No known LUCAS connection (even with her siblings, who are well documented). The Patrick/Phebe combination is unusual (especially McD), so I can't help feeling the Wood Street entry is them, but somehow misrecorded. We'll never know.

Thanks for checking.

Hi again,
there are births on Free BMD for Thomas and Margaret McDonald which fit with the ages of the children in 1851.
I have tried to follow them and I think they may be at:
 1861 RG9; Piece: 2045; Folio: 64; Page: 5 with a mother Esther  Huh and stepfather Joseph 'Whild'.

1871 RG10; Piece: 2999; Folio: 43; Page: 21
Thomas with wife Sarah and mother 'Eliza Wild'.

1881 RG11; Piece: 2867; Folio: 32; Page: 14
with mother 'Ester While'

Ester's birthplace is Ireland and Derbyshire.

I am bringing them to your attention as possibilities for the 1851 - although there is the discrepancy between Phebe and Ester/Eliza , the children births and subsequent census entry does fit. Undecided
This of course would then still leave your Patrick and Phebe as missing.

best wishes
heywood
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Alexander, Suffolk and Lancashire; Ashworth,Whitworth, Grindrod Lancashire; Golden, Duffy County Mayo.
heywood
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Re: Can a Change in Faith bring a Change of Name?
« Reply #19 on: Friday 03 July 09 19:39 UTC (UK) »
Quote from: rossliv on Friday 03 July 09 11:19 UTC (UK)
Hi

sorry doublechecked and Patrick 1851  is Head

Do You know what the parents of Phebe are called?  Is there a surname Lucas connection anywhere?

I looked at this a couple of times but looking at the actual entry- this couple are living in Lower Green where you say the first child was born Masgrace. The ages fit.
I can't see a marriage for a James Lucas/Whitehouse

1851 HO107; Piece: 2029; Folio: 178; Page: 18

was Phebe's mother called Hannah?
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Alexander, Suffolk and Lancashire; Ashworth,Whitworth, Grindrod Lancashire; Golden, Duffy County Mayo.
masgrace
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Re: Can a Change in Faith bring a Change of Name?
« Reply #20 on: Saturday 04 July 09 07:08 UTC (UK) »
Well done heywood - many thanks! The Lower Green entry is obviously them.
Hannah is Phebe's mum, and Thomas is Phebe's youngest brother. Patrick (as James) is with Phebe, the right ages, as you say.
Absolutely no idea why they are given as LUCAS though. It is not even phonetically close to a McD*.

Appreciate everyone's help. It started out as a discussion on first name changes, but with the bonus result of another reference point - again James on census, making that James on every census.

Best wishes,
Mark
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heywood
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Re: Can a Change in Faith bring a Change of Name?
« Reply #21 on: Saturday 04 July 09 08:27 UTC (UK) »
It's a good job that Phebe is indexed as Whitehouse which rossliv also saw-otherwise we would not have made that connection perhaps. Wink

As you say no phonetic resemblance at all but did you say his dad was Luke?  We will never know but it makes you wonder if at some point he could have said something about that to the enumerator  Undecided

Going back to the culture of names - in my Irish researches where lots of people share the same names, they were distinguished by using their father's christian name too e.g. James McDonald (Luke) as opposed to someone called James McDonald (Andrew). However, that is in remote parts of Ireland and not Tipton  Roll Eyes

The main thing though is that you now have him.  Cheesy
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Alexander, Suffolk and Lancashire; Ashworth,Whitworth, Grindrod Lancashire; Golden, Duffy County Mayo.
masgrace
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Re: Can a Change in Faith bring a Change of Name?
« Reply #22 on: Saturday 04 July 09 09:16 UTC (UK) »
That's an interesting point that LUCAS could be s/o Luke.
Maybe I need to start searching for baptisms under LUCAS.......I'll give it a go today.

Nice detective work all round. I have added a comment to the Ancestry reference for the LUCAS pair for anyone else looking for "Macks".

M.
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All my family history & research at http://CreativeGraces.net offering free data exchange & ongoing collaborative research for more than 160 family names including several One-Name Studies. Over 240 surnames/interests on RootsChat Surname List. Want to know all there is to know about the use of DNA in genealogy? Then use http://www.isogg.org/
heywood
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Re: Can a Change in Faith bring a Change of Name?
« Reply #23 on: Saturday 04 July 09 12:09 UTC (UK) »
I'm not sure if it would be used as an alternative - it was just that it is not remotely like any 'Mc..' name so it just struck me that it was like Lucas and perhaps there had been a mix up .. howver we will never know!

good luck
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Alexander, Suffolk and Lancashire; Ashworth,Whitworth, Grindrod Lancashire; Golden, Duffy County Mayo.
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