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Topic: SMITH of Penzance - any suggestions? (Read 431 times)
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Niceboytiddles
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 5
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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My great grandfather, John Smith, born c. 1864 always claimed (in the 1891, 1901 & 1911 censuses) to have been born in Penzance, giving his father's name also as John Smith. My father also always stated Penzance as the correct birthplace for his grandfather.
Unfortunately despite years of searching I have been unable to find John Smith born 1864 in the records for Penzance or even reasonably nearby - although there are a couple of John Smiths, they are not mine. The first official record I have of him is in 1884 when he married my great grandmother in Plymouth and they settled near St Germans where she was born. The children they had were Rosina, Frederick John, Ethel and Arthur - names that don't appear in her family at all.
Recently I have been thinking that the names are more likely to have come from his family and that he probably named his eldest daughter (Rosina) after his mother and his eldest son after another family member such as a brother. I have also thought that he may well have been illegitimate and so his surname when baptised was probably his mother's but he knew his father was called John Smith and started using his surname later on - perhaps his parents married at some stage.
Has anyone got any pointers for me? Any thoughts on where to go with this conundrum? Unfortunately all family members who might know the answers have long since died.
Best wishes
Niceboytiddles
Researching Smith & Pote in Cornwall.
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« Last Edit: Monday 06 July 09 13:40 UTC (UK) by krisesjoint »
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suzard
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 10367
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Have you checked this birth reg??
FreeBMD
John Smith
Sept qtr 1864
penance
5c 352
I cannot find him in 1871 though
Suz
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Thornhill, Cresswell, Sisson, Harriman, Cripps, Eyre, Walter, Marson, Battison, Holmes, Bailey, Hardman, Fairhurst Noon-mainly in Derbys/Notts-but also Northampton, Oxford, Leics, Lancs-England Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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Niceboytiddles
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 5
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Fizzy Bubble asked me to supply some additional information about my grandfather, John Smith:
John Smith (born approx 1864, Penzance?)
Married Mary Elizabeth Sleep, 16 February 1884, Stoke Damerel Register Office, Plymouth. Their residence was Grandby Street, Devonport (Plymouth). John Smith's father was named as John Smith, husbandman (deceased). The witnesses were J Henderson and Bessie Henderson.
Children: Rosina Smith, born 6th December 1884, Minards, St Germans, Cornwall
Frederick John Smith, born 16th February 1887, St Germans, Cornwall
Ethel Smith, born 26th November 1888, Seaton, Cornwall
Arthur Smith, born 26th March 1894, St Germans, Cornwall
Censuses: 1871 - unable to find John Smith
1881 - unable to find John Smith
1891 - John Smith, with wife & children, living in Hessenford
1901 - John Smith, with wife & children, living at Minards Cross, Hessenford, St Germans
1911 - John Smith, with wife & children, living at Narkurs, St Germans
On all the censuses where he appears, John Smith gave his birthplace as Penzance. Mary Elizabeth Sleep came from Hessenford. I have traced the Hendersons who were witnesses at their marriage and they were mother and daughter from Falmouth. They do not appear to be related to either John Smith or Mary Sleep. Although Bessie Henderson had a son called John who would be about the right age he was not called Smith and was born in Plymouth.
The only child of John Smith who had descendants was Rosina Smith (and I am the only one remaining).
I have had the Cornwall Records Office undertake a search for me for John Smith births in Penzance and unfortunately although there are a couple, they are not mine. This includes the BMD birth for September 1864.
I am really at the end of the road so any suggestions would be welcome. Recently I have been thinking about the children's names - Rosina, Frederick, Ethel & Arthur. These do not appear anywhere in their mother's family. Was there a Cornish convention for naming children after the father's family?
Best wishes
Niceboytiddles
(Researching Pote & Smith in Cornwall)
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Niceboytiddles
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 5
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thank you Fizzy for your helpful reply. I did know about this John Smith, aged 16 living at Buddle Gate and I have considered him seriously as a possibility because he was in the right place at the right time and was also the right age to be the John Smith who married Mary Sleep. I have not found him in 1871 though.
Obviously there is the issue of Plymouth rather than Penzance but as we all know, ancestors could be a bit fluid about place of birth! I have also been unsure about John Smith, the Uncle, aged 66. When my John Smith married Mary Sleep he gave his father's name as John Smith, deceased. Either this means that he gave his uncle's name instead of his father's, presumably because he was living with him, or much more unlikely that there were two brothers both called John.
Best wishes
Niceboytiddles
(researching Smith & Pote in Cornwall)
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Niceboytiddles
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 5
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Wow Fizzy, that's awesome! During my ongoing searches for the elusive Smith clan, I have never found Uncle John Smith's family but I am sure that these are the right people as there is a brother called Richard, the name Uncle John Smith later gave to his own son. May I ask your source? I have a Cornish Baptisms CD, and also CDs of the parish records for St Germans and Liskeard. Presumably I should find them on one or more of those.
I've also never managed to find out what happened to Uncle John Smith although I had concluded that not only had he died sometime between 1881 & 1891 but so had his wife Jane and son Richard. Could you enlighten me as to the fate of Uncle John? Obviously you will guess that the answer to your question about whether I have researched Uncle John Smith's brothers, is no. Clearly I must do so.
I am very grateful for your time spent helping me. I have been close to giving up on the Smiths.
B/w
Niceboytiddles
(Researching Smith & Pote in Cornwall).
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Niceboytiddles
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 5
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I'm still following up on Fizzy's very useful information but always hoping that some long lost Smith cousin will recognise my Smiths as their own.
B/w
Niceboytiddles
looking for Smiths & Potes in St Germans
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