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Topic: Frederick BELL 1791 - 1869 Lambeth (Read 779 times)
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RipleyAnne
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 93
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Looking for any information on Frederick BELL b. approx 1791, Middlesex. Married Elizabeth ??
Children: Elizabeth (b. approx 1837), Emma and Charlotte (1839), Mary Ann (1842)
1841 census shows:
Frederic, Elizabeth, Elizabeth and Charlotte living in Pear Tree St, St Mary, Lambeth. Occupation appears to be broker.
Unable to find mention in 1851 census.
1861 census shows:
Frederick, Elizabeth, Charlotte, Mary Ann and adopted daughter, Charlotte (Blundell) in Hercules Buildings, lambeth. Occupation: Auctioneer's messenger.
Died 1869 in Lambeth.
Wife Elizabeth remained in Lambeth until her death in 1888.
Am hoping someone may be able to locate the family in 1851 census or find a marriage for Frederic(k) and Elizabeth although this will be difficult not knowing her surname.
Thanks
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RipleyAnne
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 93
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thank-you very much Meliora for this information. I will apply for the twins' birth certificate and see if the mother's maiden name is Gibley. It would be great if it is! There is no mention anywhere of a son named Frederick - so assuming it is the right family it looks like he died prior to 1841.
Whilst I wait for the twins' birth cert to arrive (takes about 2 weeks to reach me here in Australia) I will do some more investigation with the information you have given me.
Just one small thing. Not knowing London at all... is St Martins in the Fields in or near Lambeth?
Thanks again.
Sandra
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RipleyAnne
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 93
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Meliora,
Thank-you for the great links. They were really right in the centre of London, weren't they! What an impressive church too!
I will contact the City of Westmister archives via the link you've given me and ask for a copies of the parish records of Frederick and Elizabeth's marriage and their son Frederick's birth.
I have already applied to GRO for a copy of the twins' birth certificate. (One of the twins, Emma, was my g-g-grandmother). The hardest part will be now waiting (patiently?) for the certificates to arrive.
Again, thank-you for the help you've given me... I really appreciate it.
Sandra
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RipleyAnne
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 93
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Meliora,
Sorry to trouble you again but I have been doing some more research and trying to find the family in the 1851 census. I would like your opinion on something to see if it might measure up.
I am pretty sure that I have found Elizabeth and the girls living in Dyers St Southwark Christ Church. Elizabeth is listed as the head, married and an annuitant. Ages, places etc seem to match so i feel quite confident in claiming these "Bell's" as mine.
Following quite a bit more searching I found a Frederick Bell at Southwick Place, Southwick. He is listed as a married visitor - occupation porter. The age matches up and i don't seem to be able to find any other Frederick Bells' of the right age but I am still not sure.
What I would like to ask you is, from your knowledge, are Southwark and Southwick anywhere near each other? I have tried googling this but am getting quite confused.
Thanks!!
Sandra
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RipleyAnne
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 93
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi,
I am a novice at this but I found the census on the Ancestry website. I don't know if this will work but here is the link to the information I found:
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=uki1851&h=5834565&ti=5538&indiv=try&gss=pt
This information might also help: Class: HO107; Piece: 1661; Folio: 288; Page: 20; GSU roll: 193568.
It seems as though "this" Frederick was staying at 83 Southwick Place, Southwick. It appears to me to have perhaps been some type of a lodging house. The others in the residence were: Elizabeth Churcher (a housemaid and in charge), Elizabeth Bosswel (a kitchen maid) and 3 other porters - John Philipps, Wiliam Ramney and William Clark.
My thought was that he was perhaps here overnight as part of his employment.
Thanks
Sandra
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Gaie
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 971
CenInf Crown Copyright www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Sandra & Meliora 
You're both right! Sandra, the link does open to a Frederick Bell b 1790 in Surr(e)y, Christchurch.
1851 Census
HO107 Piece 1661 Folio 288 Page 20
Southwick Place, Southwick, Fareham, Hants
Elizth CHURCHER ~ Head Charge of Mansion ~ unm 38 ~ Housemaid ~ b Hants, Droxford?
Elizabeth BOSSWELL ~ Servant ~ unm 20 ~ Kitchen maid ~ b Hants, Wickham
John PHILIPPE ~ Visitor ~ mar 42 ~ Porter ~ b Middlesex, St George
William RUMNEY ~ Visitor ~ mar 49 ~ Porter ~ b Middlesex, Moor Fields
Frederick BELL ~ Visitor ~ mar 61 ~ Porter ~ b Surr(e)y, Christchurch
William CLARK(E) ~ Visitor ~ mar 30? ~ Porter ~ b Middlesex, St M in th Fields (St Martin in the Fields?)
It sounds like they were opening up or closing down the mansion for the season; Southwick Place was at one time the country seat of the Thistlethwayte family who were lessees of the Paddington manor - try Googling!
Kind regards
Gaie
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Sussex, Burwash/Somerset/South London: PANKHURST/FABLING/GREEN/KING/PARROT/POPE/PEMBROKE
Notts/Leics/London: POLLARD/BELAND/FELLS/MORRISON/MARYSON/CLARKE
Northants: MARRIOT/T
Suffolk: LINGLY/LINGLEY/LINDLY/LINDLEY/ SEAGER /SIGGER/SEGGAR/VINCE
Gloucs: WINDOW Glamorgan: JENKINS Cardiganshire: JONES
Poland: OZIEMKIEWICZ France: LINETTE
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RipleyAnne
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 93
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thanks Meliora and Gaie for your perseverance with this.
As I mentioned earlier I live in Australia so don't have a good handle on places and distances in England... but given this information do you think it is possible that this man might be "my" Frederick or am barking up the wrong tree?
I have spent some time this morning looking for other "Frederick Bell"s born around the same time but only managed to find one in the 1861 census who is listed as being an inmate in the workhouse in Gainsborough, Lincolnshire. I have discarded him as I know "my" Frederick was in the Hercules Buildings in Lambeth at the time of that census.
You both seem very knowledgeable so I would value your opinions.
Thanks,
Sandra
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Meliora
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2966
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I think that Gaie may well agree with me that the Frederick Bell, a porter, in the 1851 census in Hampshire could very well be the Frederick Bell, an Auctioneer's messenger in the 1861 census.
Altho. the birth place for Frederick in the 1861 census is shown aMiddsx St Lukes, the 1851 states Surrey, Christchurch, & he has a long association with Lambeth.
Lambeth is south of the Thames as previously stated, this is technically Surrey while north of the Thames is Middsx apart from the City of London & Westminster. Christchurch, Surrey is immediately adjacent to the district of Lambeth. St Lukes,Middsx, is shown either in Clerkenwell or Finsbury. all these districts both north & south of the Thames are known as Greater London.
Why Frederick gave his birth place as St Lukes is difficult to say, but I have found this family.
Parents David & Elizabeth Bell
children all bapt at St Lukes Old Street, Finsbury
MARY BELL
born 8th Feb 1780
bapt.12th July 1780
JANE BELL
born 30th Oct. 1781
bapt 1st Jan 1782
CHARLOTTA BELL
born 12th June 1783
bapt 23rd Nov 1783
JOHN BELL
born 3rd June 1785
bapt 29th Mar 1786
ANNE
born 26th Mar 1787
bapt 11th Apr. 1787
FREDERICK BELL
born 17th Apr. 1790
bapt 3rd Nov 1790
Sadly, a land mine fell behind the church in the London Blitz , severely damaged it & it remained a shell for a long time I know because my own maternal family lost their home built in the shadow of the church. The church has now been party restored & is used a rehersal rooms for the London Symphany Orchestra.
Hope this helps,
Meliora
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This information is Crown Copyright from National Archives.gov.uk
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RipleyAnne
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 93
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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You are marvellous!  This information is amazing! I will now spend time looking at these additional people to see if there are any further similarities in names and places.
Thank-you so much for this and your patience with my lack of knowledge in regards to London.
Sandra
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