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Topic: *Completed* 1841 Census look-up SYMISON (Read 602 times)
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Macharskin
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 69
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I would much appreciate someone looking up William Symeson and family in 1841 Census for me please.
The family I am interested in appeared in 1851 Census for Ronaldsay St Mary parish:
William, Hd, 54 Fisherman
Margaret, 46
Barbara, 12
Anne, 10
James, 1
I am trying to establish William's parents, but have conflicting DOB for this particular William. He married Margaret Taylor 1836.
Regards, M.
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« Last Edit: Monday 27 July 09 20:37 UTC (UK) by Macharskin »
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The Machars: Clanachan, Coid, Dally, Dirom, Griffin, Kelly, Mann, McDonald, McDowall, McMillan, Michael,
Co. Londonerry: Mann, Loughrey, Fowler
Donegal: Wilson.
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hume
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1730
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Hi M.,
There is this census entry on FreeCen. They have transcribed William's occupation as tailor, but I wonder if it could be sailor instead. It's a common mistake. It also looks as if William or Margaret was married before (prob. William).
Address: Sandwick, South Ronaldsay, Orkney
William Symeson, m, 40, tailor, b. in county
Margaret Symeson, f, 30, -, b. in county
Isabella Symeson, f, 12, -, b. in county
James Symeson, m, 10, -, b. in county
Barbara Symeson, f, 3, -, b. in county
Anne Symeson, f, 10 months, -, b. in county
As for his birth and parents, have you tried his death certificate if he died after 1855? That should give you a start with them. 
hume
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Macharskin
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 69
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Hume,
Thank you for that - I hadn't found them on Ancestry earlier. He is my man - and as to the tailor sailor matter - that's what misled me!
I already had a SP death certificate of a William d 1857 (parents William and Isabella) whose occupation was entered as Tailor, but as that didn't square with Fisherman (1851 census) and Seaman* (Margaret's death registration) I had started to look at other possibilities.
Now I have the man, I can see that this William may well have married Barbara Rusland 1822 previously, and the son James in the 1851 census was issue from that earlier marriage.
Thanks again. M.
(* corrected from Sailor in original post)
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« Last Edit: Tuesday 14 July 09 21:17 UTC (UK) by Macharskin »
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The Machars: Clanachan, Coid, Dally, Dirom, Griffin, Kelly, Mann, McDonald, McDowall, McMillan, Michael,
Co. Londonerry: Mann, Loughrey, Fowler
Donegal: Wilson.
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kirkmichael
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 79
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Aye weel, jist a nice simple wee query, ken, before tea (the Scots 'high' version) - have a look at the 1841 census enumeration book image to see if it's a T or an S in the occupation field!
Not so easy, however, as there is no matching family on ScotlandsPeople; a couple of close matches for William aged 40, surname SYMESON or close variants, but no matching family group.
Now, FreeCen transcriptions are among the most reliable, so let's put faith in it, and look for all sorts of possible variants, choosing Isabella aged 12 as the least commonly occurring given name.
Only when finally searching on 'Isa *SON aged 12' in Orkney did the FreeCen matching probable family grouping come up.
(On ScotlandsPeople, unless the option is unchecked, there's an automatic final wildcard for the given name, i.e. searching for 'Isa' is equivalent to searching for ' Isa* '.)
And there was just the single match for wee 12 year old Isabella !
The normally reasonably reliable ScotlandsPeople transcription falls flat on it face in this instance, the surname having been transcribed as GARSON  .
OK, I'll admit that the enumerator's hand ain't that great, and the image is a bit messy, although not that faint, but no way is the surname GARSON; but then, and here's the rub, I knew what it should be ! 
Let that be a lesson in terms of how even normally reliable websites can get it completely wrong. OK, had we been talking an Ancestry transcription, I wouldn't have been that surprised  , but for SP's sub-contractor to get it that wrong worries me.
And then, of course, this example demonstrates the continuing great value, and extremely high standard of the transcriptions on FreeCen. FreeCen operate a system where, if a transcriber can't be sure of an entry, it gets referred to someone more expert, and if they can't sort out the problem, it gets referred further to an even better expert, and so on, until there's clear agreement as to the entry.
And after all that, was it Sailor or Tailor ! Quite clearly from several other "S"s on the page it was Tailor.
Wullie
PS I'd suggest a revisit to Margaret's death register entry to doublecheck that the occupation is Sailor rather than Tailor !
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hume
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1730
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Hi Wullie,
I do agree that FreeCen transcriptions are usually pretty good, but I thought this may just be a blip in their record. Obviously not. However again using their index (second time lucky) I cannot find a match for the same family group as M. found in 1851. Even without William, who may have been at sea.
Hope something can be found.
hume
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kirkmichael
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 79
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Wullie, I do agree that FreeCen transcriptions are usually pretty good, but I thought this may just be a blip in their record. Obviously not. However again using their index (second time lucky) I cannot find a match for the same family group as M. found in 1851. Even without William, who may have been at sea. Hope something can be found. hume
Hi Hume
Were it not for the fact that we go on holiday on Thursday, departing from Glasgow at 7 am on Thursday morning for two weeks in Lanzarote (check in time 5 am  ), this thread would have been my cue for writing an article on (a) the different approaches to indexing, - true 'double entry, and so on, along with (b) who uses what system?, e.g. Ancestry, FreeCen, GROS/ScotlandsPeople, including all the rather subtle variants on the various approaches, and the consequences for researchers.
This would have/may still will include a further look at whether Ancestry use some form of OCR (optical character recognition) or equivalent software. A year or so ago, during a very detailed Google I came across an article in an obscure technical journal that very clearly implied that Ancestry did indeed use OCR or some equivalent character recognition software, which fitted in with my own opinion that so many of the Ancestry mis-transcriptions that I've seen could only derive from the use of such software.
However, should I appear on Thursday very early morning with my laptop over my shoulder, then, to use a guid Scots expression, I'd probably get ma heid in ma hauns 
Wullie
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kirkmichael
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 79
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Duplicate post deleted
Wullie
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akc
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 262
jane cooper
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on South Ronaldsay CDR,s William Symeson died 1871 aged 65 at Barswick, S Ronaldsay. parents James Symeson and Jane Rosie, informant James Rorie,s mark.
akc
This one is probably not right, it says he is single! sorry
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Dumfriesshire: Bell, Kerr, Dickson, Hetherington
Orkney: Cursiter, Peace, Drever, Cooper, Paterson
Cumberland: Charlton, Young
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akc
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 262
jane cooper
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Margaret Taylor, Widewall, S Ronaldsay died 1871 aged 67 widow of William Symison parents William Taylor and Isabella Dass, informant Peter Taylor brother
akc
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Dumfriesshire: Bell, Kerr, Dickson, Hetherington
Orkney: Cursiter, Peace, Drever, Cooper, Paterson
Cumberland: Charlton, Young
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akc
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 262
jane cooper
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1821 census for S Ronaldsay has at Moger ( the name of the property): William Symison weaver 59, Isobel 55, John 27 sailor, James 21 fisherman, William 25 tailor, Margaret 29, Janet 18 and Isobel 12, so it,s possible he was a tailor if his father was a weaver?
akc
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Dumfriesshire: Bell, Kerr, Dickson, Hetherington
Orkney: Cursiter, Peace, Drever, Cooper, Paterson
Cumberland: Charlton, Young
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Macharskin
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 69
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thank you all for your comments. The Tailor Sailor issue still bothers me.
The scans of the 1821 census on Lisa Conrad's South Ronaldsay and Burray 1821 Census Project site http://www.southronaldsay.net/1821/imageindex.html (page 40) clearly shows William as a Tailor and that is written underneath his brother John's occupation which says Sailor. As akc noted, their brother James was a Fisherman. 
The death registration for William (son of William Symison and Isobel Sinclair) which I have, describes him as Tailor, the capital S in the surname and Sandwick are quite flamboyant and look nothing like the T. The Margaret Symison death registration which I also have, gives Seaman M.S as the occupation of her late husband William, not Sailor as I said previously. (Ammended)
On the face of it it would seem that we have 2 different Williams, but the issue in both censuses and the LDS transcripts of the Orkney records seem to suggest it is the same man.
Are there any direct descendants out there? (I am researching the name for a cuzzie whose wife is a descendant)
Kind regards, M.
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« Last Edit: Wednesday 15 July 09 22:01 UTC (UK) by Macharskin »
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The Machars: Clanachan, Coid, Dally, Dirom, Griffin, Kelly, Mann, McDonald, McDowall, McMillan, Michael,
Co. Londonerry: Mann, Loughrey, Fowler
Donegal: Wilson.
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akc
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 262
jane cooper
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A wee bit more info to add to the confusion; on cursiter.com there is a William Symeson married to Barbara Rusland in 1822 with children William b 1823, John b 1824, James b 1829 and George b 1832. Also William Symeson married to Margaret Taylor 1836 with children Barbara b 1838, Anne Wishart Symeson b 1841 and James b 1850.
akc
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Dumfriesshire: Bell, Kerr, Dickson, Hetherington
Orkney: Cursiter, Peace, Drever, Cooper, Paterson
Cumberland: Charlton, Young
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Macharskin
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 69
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi akc,
Following on from hume's first response I have been wondering if William married twice, first to Barbara Rusland then Margaret Taylor Symison - as I had seen the Wm and Barbara family details you mentioned on LDS (and cursiter.com).
Son James (10yrs) mentioned in the 1841 census would appear from his birth year to be the son of Wm and Barbara - I can't find any other contenders. Having said that, I haven't yet found a record of Isabella's birth c 1829, unless she was a visitor (perhaps daughter of Jas and Janet Symison). Finding that and Barbara Symison's death date would help.
Perhaps William was a tailor in the Merchant Navy!
Kind regards, M.
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« Last Edit: Friday 17 July 09 20:54 UTC (UK) by Macharskin »
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The Machars: Clanachan, Coid, Dally, Dirom, Griffin, Kelly, Mann, McDonald, McDowall, McMillan, Michael,
Co. Londonerry: Mann, Loughrey, Fowler
Donegal: Wilson.
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akc
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 262
jane cooper
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Hi again,just found this while searching for my own folks: 1864 May, William Bruce, Cletts married Isabella Symison Blanster grooms parents were John Bruce and Christiana Taylor and the bride,s parents were William Symison and Barbara Rusland, witnesses were Alexander Robertson and John Norquoy, also on same page in June, William Symison Sandwick married Jane Taylor, grooms parents were William Symison and Barbara Rusland and bride,s parents were Alexander Taylor and Cecilia Cromarty witnesses were William Bruce and Magnus Cromarty
akc
ps. Barbara Rusland, Cletts born 1797 parents were James Rusland and Margaret Couper
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Dumfriesshire: Bell, Kerr, Dickson, Hetherington
Orkney: Cursiter, Peace, Drever, Cooper, Paterson
Cumberland: Charlton, Young
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Macharskin
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 69
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi akc,
Many thanks for that very useful information. As Barbara was still alive in 1864, "my William" couldn't have remarried could he? The 1861 census must show Wm and Barbara too.
So where were Wm and Barbara in the 1841 census I wonder?
I am totally confused now.
M.
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The Machars: Clanachan, Coid, Dally, Dirom, Griffin, Kelly, Mann, McDonald, McDowall, McMillan, Michael,
Co. Londonerry: Mann, Loughrey, Fowler
Donegal: Wilson.
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