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Topic: Charles ratcliff b birmingham d matlock derbyshire (Read 630 times)
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truebritmega
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 352
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Hi there, Im looking to find out more of a Charles Ratcliff and a Helen Jardine..
Charles, from what lil i know whas a Colonel and a Deputy Lieutenant of Warwickshire, he was born in 1815, Birmingham Warwickshire and married a Helen Jardine(daughter of Sir William Jardine) and he died in 1885 in Derbyshire, does anyone know more of him? what he was in the army? and when he was a deputy lieutanant(i hate typing that word lol )
oh he was also a JP (is that a judge? )
I have posted this in the warwickshire section, but as he died in derbyshire maybe i might get some help here too?
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Smith, Tolley, Griffiths,
Monaghan, Richards, Clark, Clarke,
Brazier, Filben, Fibben,Filbin
Sherdon, Churden,Sheldon
Wolverhampton, Staffordshire, Bilston, Kent, London, Middlesex
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hepburn
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3577
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http://www.institutions.org.uk/reformatories/ref/reformatory_staff.htm
Is this him/
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stoke on trent. carson,wain,leese,shaw,key,scalley,mitchell,
,james,
nottingham,pollard,grice,
derbyshire,vallands,turton,howe.
new zealand,turton
canada,carson.
australia,mitchell,scalley,
Has anyone seen Henry Atcherson Carson,born Canada 1844?
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hepburn
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3577
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http://www.rootschat.com/links/06pk/
A book on Charles's father-in -law.
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stoke on trent. carson,wain,leese,shaw,key,scalley,mitchell,
,james,
nottingham,pollard,grice,
derbyshire,vallands,turton,howe.
new zealand,turton
canada,carson.
australia,mitchell,scalley,
Has anyone seen Henry Atcherson Carson,born Canada 1844?
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trish1120
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3563
My Amazing Mother 1912-1982
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Looks like Charles didnt marry til quite late in life;
Charles RATCLIFF
Helen JARDINE
June 1875
Kensington, 1a 119
He is also a bit hard to find on census entries. Possibly him;
1861 Census
Church Road,
Wyddrington
Egbaston, Warwickshire
RG9/2123/124/45
Ald Sen. John RATCLIFF, head,mar,61, land prop, Birmingham
Lady Ratcliff, mar, 50, wife, born Salop
CHARLES RATCLIFF, brother, unm, 39, no ocp shown, Birmingham, Warwick
+ several servants
EDIT; ties up with Hepburns findings on him as living Egbaston 
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All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukCummins, Miskelly(IRELAND + NZ) ,Leggett (SFK + NFK ENGLAND + NZ),Purdy ( NBL ENGLAND + NZ ), Shaw YKS, LANCs + NZ), Holdsworth(LINCS +LANCS + NZ), Moloney, Dean, Fitzpatrick, ( County Down,IRE) Newby(NBL.ENG, Costello(IRE), Ivers, Murray(IRE),Reay(NBL.ENG) Reid (BERW.SCOTLAND) |
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truebritmega
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 352
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hmmm lol curious? yes Wyddrington is right, (and his sisters son, started a drs practice calle Widrington, in australia!)
Yes id found that google book (pity i cant print/save the book details:( ) and charles did mary Lady Jardine (daughter of sir william jardine baronet of applegarth)
But i had Charles born 1815 and his wife, 1832?
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Logged
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Smith, Tolley, Griffiths,
Monaghan, Richards, Clark, Clarke,
Brazier, Filben, Fibben,Filbin
Sherdon, Churden,Sheldon
Wolverhampton, Staffordshire, Bilston, Kent, London, Middlesex
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trish1120
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3563
My Amazing Mother 1912-1982
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Hi truebrit 
I just logged back in as I read your reply form my email.
There seems to be 2 Charles hanging around that some people with trees have confused I think . One born Derbyshire and the other Warwickshire, I havent really looked at this properly but your Charles seems to be born later than 1815 to John and Mary. Really must go to bed, its 2.00am. John 1800 has same parents and there are a lot of siblings.
Back tomorrow.
Cheers,
Trish
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All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukCummins, Miskelly(IRELAND + NZ) ,Leggett (SFK + NFK ENGLAND + NZ),Purdy ( NBL ENGLAND + NZ ), Shaw YKS, LANCs + NZ), Holdsworth(LINCS +LANCS + NZ), Moloney, Dean, Fitzpatrick, ( County Down,IRE) Newby(NBL.ENG, Costello(IRE), Ivers, Murray(IRE),Reay(NBL.ENG) Reid (BERW.SCOTLAND) |
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hepburn
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3577
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I noticed someone on Ancestry has his birth 1822...
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stoke on trent. carson,wain,leese,shaw,key,scalley,mitchell,
,james,
nottingham,pollard,grice,
derbyshire,vallands,turton,howe.
new zealand,turton
canada,carson.
australia,mitchell,scalley,
Has anyone seen Henry Atcherson Carson,born Canada 1844?
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truebritmega
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 352
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hmmm even more curious then huh?all these charles's?
The IGI has my charles, born 1815 and christened at St. Martin's Ch., Birmingham, Warwickshire, England, with parents John Ratcliff and mary lockett and his spouse as Helen Jardine married at Kensington Ch., London, , England with his death at Matlock, Derbyshire, England 1885 with his wife being from Jardine Hall, Applegarth, Dumfrieshire, England
The IGI also has his siter being Mary Ann Ratcliff (wife of my blood relation Edmund Heeley)
Im confused now!....... lol, mine is the right one surely??
Edgbaston also ties in w the rest of the adjoining trees (the heeleys )
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Smith, Tolley, Griffiths,
Monaghan, Richards, Clark, Clarke,
Brazier, Filben, Fibben,Filbin
Sherdon, Churden,Sheldon
Wolverhampton, Staffordshire, Bilston, Kent, London, Middlesex
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trish1120
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3563
My Amazing Mother 1912-1982
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Dont worry i am sure you have the right one. Its just that there is conflicting info and most of it submitted. Also no one seems to have census refs for him on their trees. Cenus ages are often a little out anyhow.
This is the extracted Record of his birth/christening;
John RATCLIFF
Birth, 29 December 1815
Christening, 06 November 1822, Saint Martin, Birmingham, Warwick
Parents JOHN Ratcliff and MARY
Sibling on batch;
EDMUND Ratcliff,
Birth, 24 October 1813
Christened, 06 November 1822, Saint Martin, Birmingham
Maybe if people just looked at christening date from submitted sourses only they would not have known they were born 9/7 yrs earlier.  there are a couple more Charles ratcliffs born around same time to confuse things.
Have you found him on Census entries? I am going away for a day but will look at this properly when I get back.
Marriage; Extracted record;
John RATCLIFF
Mary LOCKITT
13 March 1798, St Martin , Birmingham, Warwickshire
So there is plenty of room for children born before Edmund and Charles. They are the only 2 on the batch I quoted though.
Cheers,
Trish
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All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukCummins, Miskelly(IRELAND + NZ) ,Leggett (SFK + NFK ENGLAND + NZ),Purdy ( NBL ENGLAND + NZ ), Shaw YKS, LANCs + NZ), Holdsworth(LINCS +LANCS + NZ), Moloney, Dean, Fitzpatrick, ( County Down,IRE) Newby(NBL.ENG, Costello(IRE), Ivers, Murray(IRE),Reay(NBL.ENG) Reid (BERW.SCOTLAND) |
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trish1120
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3563
My Amazing Mother 1912-1982
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Found Mary Ann, born 1806, christened 1811
+ siblings on same batch, Thomas, John, Elizabeth, Joseph
Got to run to catch a train,
Cheers,
Trish
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All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukCummins, Miskelly(IRELAND + NZ) ,Leggett (SFK + NFK ENGLAND + NZ),Purdy ( NBL ENGLAND + NZ ), Shaw YKS, LANCs + NZ), Holdsworth(LINCS +LANCS + NZ), Moloney, Dean, Fitzpatrick, ( County Down,IRE) Newby(NBL.ENG, Costello(IRE), Ivers, Murray(IRE),Reay(NBL.ENG) Reid (BERW.SCOTLAND) |
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truebritmega
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 352
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oh ty trish!! its been on my mind all night lol, in my mind I have been 99% sure my findings both via a few trees and the IGI were right, but... w these conflicting records that were coming up.....
see, these names are the links, into a whole other line Ive got as in from the marriage of charles ratcliffe into the jardines tree, the Jardines go back to the battle of hastings! (and possibly more)
My other little irritation... is a few.... trees have Edmund Heeley, married to a "marianne" ratcliffe, Ive found no such marriage that ties in with the details I believe to be true, but still, its something that was bugging me, I still believe, and your findings agree w the fact.... edmund heeley, married mary ann (not marianne) ratcliffe in 1827 the IGI has that marriage too and details of all the children..
but those lil contradictions have left me pondering alllllllllllllllllllllllllll night LOL
so thatnk you so much for your help there, for I have gathered so much info on the jardine family now (including a castle, stately home and a 5,500 acre estate LOL)
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Logged
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Smith, Tolley, Griffiths,
Monaghan, Richards, Clark, Clarke,
Brazier, Filben, Fibben,Filbin
Sherdon, Churden,Sheldon
Wolverhampton, Staffordshire, Bilston, Kent, London, Middlesex
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Dave Jones
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 52
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Charles Ratcliff was prominent in forming in 1859 the Birmingham Battalion of the Volunteer Rifle Corps. In 1860 he received a captains commission. In about 1865 he was appointed major, and then in 1867 he became lieutenant-colonel of the battalion
Following a War Office enquiry in 1871 he resigned, but with permission of the War Office he retained the rank of colonel of the volunteers.
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Dave Jones
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 52
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As you say your blood relative was Edmund Heeley (wife of Mary Ann Ratcliff) you might be interested in the namesof the family mourners at the funeral of Sir John Ratcliff (brother of George Ratcliff) in 1864.
Mr Charles Ratcliff
Mr Edmund Ratcliff
Rev T Ratcliff (London)
Mr Charles Pugh
Mr W Pugh
Mr Arthur Heeley
Mr Edmund Heeley
#in case you do not have it:
Jacksons Oxford Journal of October 13th 1827 has marriage announcement "Mr Edmund Heeley, merchant, to Miss Mary Ann Ratcliff, both of Birmingham"
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truebritmega
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 352
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ooh ty! no I dont have it, nor do i know yet lol... of Sir Charles lol, the ratcliffs are a new line to me that I didnt know till a week or so back, and since then there has been lead after lead and several other family lines too lolol, leading me all across the US by the look of it lol (my heads still wheeling w all the info, great when that happens huh? lol )
Hopefully I can get back on trackl w the other ratcliffs, hopefully tonight i'll make a start (im in Hildicks now LOL)
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Smith, Tolley, Griffiths,
Monaghan, Richards, Clark, Clarke,
Brazier, Filben, Fibben,Filbin
Sherdon, Churden,Sheldon
Wolverhampton, Staffordshire, Bilston, Kent, London, Middlesex
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truebritmega
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 352
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where did you find the mourners details? are they online? and is the Jacksons Oxford Journal online too? Id love to get those snippets
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Logged
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Smith, Tolley, Griffiths,
Monaghan, Richards, Clark, Clarke,
Brazier, Filben, Fibben,Filbin
Sherdon, Churden,Sheldon
Wolverhampton, Staffordshire, Bilston, Kent, London, Middlesex
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