docmilfoil
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 7
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I'm new to the RootsChat forum so please bear with me.
I have two great aunts who where baptised in the 1st Presbyterian Church in Ballynahatty, so was very interested to read the former posts about the Houstons. The Minister who baptised the two girls was Rev. John Houston.
SARAH JANE BATES in 1844
MATILDA BATES in 1853
I live in Australia and did employ a researcher to try to find information for me about my ancestors. The only firm piece of evidence were the two Baptisms in Ballynahatty.
Now to put some names to my post
In 1857, my great grandparents left Tyrone for Australia.
They were THOMAS BATES and his wife MARTHA ELLIOTT.
With them were five children
SARAH ANN BATES 12
MARY ANN 11
WILLIAM 7
MATILDA 4
MARGARET an infant
Also baptised in the Ballynahatty church were children of two other BATES families, namely ROBERT BATES, wife was FRANCES HENDERSON and FRANCIS BATES, wife was JANE SMITH.
I think that ROBERT and FRANCIS BATES were brothers of my great grandfather THOMAS BATES.
ROBERT BATES and FRANCES HENDERSON (father JOHN) were also married in the Ballynahatty Church in 1852.
Cannot find marriages for THOMAS BATES and MARTHA ELLIOTT or FRANCIS BATES and JANE SMITH.
FRANCIS BATES and JANE SMITH's child who was baptised was FANNY, baptised in 1853.
Children baptised for ROBERT BATES and FRANCES HENDERSON were
THOMAS BATES 1853
MARY BATES 1854
CATHERINE BATES 1856
Ann JANE BATES 1858
Then in 1868 a son GEORGE BATES was baptised in Omagh.
Following through from there I think CATHERINE BATES(above) married JOHN LYNN in 1881 in Omagh.
MARY BATES(above) married HENRY MONTGOMERY in 1875 in Omagh. HENRY MONTGOMERY 's address on marriage certificate was Ballynahatty.
I see by the previous posts that there was a Presbyterian Church opened in Ballynahatty in 1805. Are these records available for access as the ones for Baptisms etc., only seem to start in 1843, and I may find some missing marriage and births in the earlier dates, if lucky?
THOMAS, ROBERT and FRANCIS BATES'S parents were ROBERT BATES and MARY SIMPSON who must have married around 1815.
THOMAS BATES and MARTHA ELLIOTT wold have married around 1843/4.
Do any of these names sound familiar to anyone on the list.
Hoping for some new leads
Regards
docmilfoil
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aghadowey
Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 13617
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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IGI (www.familysearch.org) lists 2 children for Robert Bates and Frances Henderson-
Elizabeth born 12 Feb.1864 Omagh district
George born 28 Feb.1868 Co.Tyrone
Since civil registration of births started in 1864 you'd need church records for earlier children (which you've already checked).
Although the church was founded in the early 1800s it's possible that early records no longer exist.
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docmilfoil
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 7
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Thank you aghadowey for your reply.
I had written a long reply explaining about the BATEs family being from Attaghmore in Donacavey.
There was a error in posting as a notice came up to tell me I had posted twice, however, my post seems to have disappeared into thin air.
Will wait to see what happens, otherwise I will have to repost what I had written.
Rgards
docmilfoil
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docmilfoil
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 7
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hello again. My post seems to have disappeared, so I will have another go.
I had posted to the topic about Balylnahatty because that is the only place in Ireland that I can safely say that my ancestors were recorded.
Although the BATES FAMILIES were being married and baptised in Ballynahatty, they were supposed to have originated from Attaghmore in Donacavey Parish, so "Bates of Ballynahatty Tyrone' may be a misnomer.
On the IGI we find a ROBERT BATES born about 1788 in Attaghmore marrying MARY (SIMPSON?) in about 1815/1817.
IGI shows twin boys born to ROBERT BATES and MARY
ROBERT BATES born 2 or 6 April 1820 at Attaghmore
FRANCIS BATES born 2 or 6 April 1820 at Attaghmore
Because of THOMAS BATES'S death certificate we know that he was born about 1815/1817 to ROBERT BATES and MARY SIMPSON, therefore one may assume that he was the brother of ROBERT and FRANCIS BATES, however it would be good to be able to say that with certainty with records to prove it.
That is the problem as the records for Ballynahatty that I have only start in 1843 and I obviously need records before that date. That being said I would like to know how the twins, ROBERT and FRANCIS have such a precise birth date. Where did that come from?
Any help would be greatly appreciated
Regards
docmilfoil
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docmilfoil
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 7
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thanks again aghadowey for your reply.
By death certificate for THOMAS and marriage certificate for ROBERT we know that the father's name in both cases was ROBERT BATES.
The problem is to find the records to verify birthdates/baptismal dates for THOMAS, ROBERT and FRANCIS.
I was looking through some lists for Presbyterian churches in Donacavey and Drumragh and was surprised to see that for the Civil Parish for Donacavey, Ballynahatty churches are included and yet in the Parish maps Ballynahatty is in Drumragh Parish. All a bit confusing.
Any ideas on how to go about finding records greatly appreciated.
Regards
docmilfoil
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audrey
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3748
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Robert Bates Married
Fanny Henderson 21/6/1852 at Drumragh Ty.
H/F/ Robert Bates
W/F John Henderson
Thomas Bates to
Mary Ann Miller 22/2/1860 at Killyman Ty.
H/F/ Robert Bates
W/F William Miller
audrey
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docmilfoil
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 7
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thanks to both aghadowey and audrey for answering my post.
I must say I am impressed with the help offered on this site
Thankyou. Will look into the websites provided.
Regards
docmilfoil
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docmilfoil
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 7
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Well, I can strike Killyman off my list as a spot for my Thomas Bates who had married Martha Elliott in about 1843. I was looking at that Thomas as a possible one on the Griffiths Valuation. Wrong wife so not my Thomas.
Also had a look at all the websites mentioned.
It would appear that the researcher I had employed did look at all the available registers so that does not take me forward.
I feel that those Church records from the old Ballynahatty Church may be what is needed but don't appear to be available? What could have happened to them? Should I get in touch with the controlling body of the Presbyterian Church for Northern Ireland and ask?
Failing that I think I will have to concentrate on Robert Bates who married Frances Henderson and see where that leads, by trying to follow the succeeding generations. At least a couple of his children married, 2 girls, who both married in the Church of Ireland Parish of Drumragh. However I have not been able to find their children as the dates don't seem to go past 1874 in my Vital Records, and the girls married in 1875 and 1881. How would I find any children?
Regards
docmilfoil
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aghadowey
Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 13617
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Many Presbyterian registers either have been lost or simply didn't exist so earlier records may not be available. Another possibility is that the records are in local custody (with the Minister or Clerk of Session) so you might want to contact the church in question - although some ministers don't answer queries and at this time of year the minister may be on holiday so be prepareed to wait for an answer. The Presbyterian Historical Society, Belfast would normally another be another place to enquire but I was there yesterday and the librarian has left (they are in the process of interviewing).
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docmilfoil
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 7
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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OK. Will try both those avenues of contact you mention re old Ballynahatty Church records.
Thankyou again for all your help
Regards
docmilfoil
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