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Topic: Sir Stanley Bell, Wigan or nearby (Read 625 times)
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fenty
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 16
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Tati and Ainslie hi
Many thanks for the updates, Rebecca looking interesting, will await any further news - my searches are obviously way out. S.
Re the software: If cannot sort will try and find someone who can transfer the tree online on for me, the software looks terrifying and I am normally ok with that sort of thing!
Sarah
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nic67
RootsChat Pioneer
Posts: 1
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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lead65sled
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 2
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Dear Sarah,
My apologies for the familiarity, we haven't been properly introduced. Indeed, I don't even know your surname. This forum has led me to you in search of information regarding Col. Sir Stanley Bell.
I am a simple man of Utah, U.S.A. I became the owner of a 1957 Rolls Royce Silver Cloud last year; once ordered for your grandfather, delivered in June of 1957 and appears to have been associated with him while he owned Euxton Hall and was chairman of Astley Industrial Trust. The car is in poor condition now, but I am confident that I will be able to return it to its former glory over the next few years.
The information I have for Sir Stanley is limited to what I have discovered here from your posts. Web resources are limited; I was hoping that you would be able to help. I would like his biography, a photo of he and his family with the car or any other photo of the car back in the day. Would you be able to help in this regard? The history of the car is a fascinating subject, think of it like the history of the Spitfire to some. I am a bit of an anglophile and am very appreciative of our joint history and the ties we hold as a culture.
Would there be any contacts or artifacts for/from the Astley Industrial Trust that would know what happened to the car after your Grandfather passed away in 1972? I presume that the company or your family had possession, then it became available for export to the U.S.A. The history of the car between 1970 and 1990 are a loss to me. I'm unable to a photo of the car, due to the limitations of this forum. Back in your grandfather's day the car was midnight blue, rather than the silver and maroon of today. According to The Rolls-Royce Foundation records, the car was delivered to Loxham Garages, Lancs. I haven't been able to confirm.
If you are amenable, would we be able to exchange e-mail addresses? I anticipate a fruitful correspondence.
Respectfully,
Rich
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fenty
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 16
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Dear Rich,
Thank you for your note and indeed it is lovely to hear that the car is in such good hands. Although I obviously have photos of my grandfather, none of them feature the car which I travelled in once when I was about 6 years old. Barlow, Grandpa's chauffeur kept it in the garage most of the time and used the other car for daily use. I do remember my mother taking it to a grand ball in Cumbria after my grandfather and grandmother's death and I think there was a problem with the wheel on the way! The car was sold soon afterwards.
I have left a message with Rolls Royce regarding the dealership and any manufacturers no/ car no you have will also help them with the history of the car. I cannot see that the Lancashire dealership have a website or indeed is still trading.
I hope this helps in a small way and will send back to you any correspondence received from RR.
Yours sincerely,
Sarah
Sarah Fenton Mrs.
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lead65sled
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 2
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Mrs. Fenton, you are very kind. Your response is a big help 
I really do appreciate your recollections! It is fascinating to think that you remember riding in the car when a little girl. I have a daughter that age now. I wonder what her memories will be! In fact, yesterday was her 7th birthday, we rode in the car to a state park to watch the annual bison roundup and tour an historical ranch in the Great Salt Lake area.
For the query to Rolls-Royce; The car is a 1957 model year Silver Cloud (later called the Silver Cloud I series); the chasis number is SED.69; the body number is SC.2673 'S' type Saloon; "Customer, Loxhams Garages ltd. for, Sir Stanley Bell SF/SE 7.6.57" Originally Midnight Blue, the car was repainted marron over silver sometime in the '70s I believe. This guess is because the paint used was a laquer, not available in the states since the early '80s.
[img][/img]
May I presume to ask a series of questions?
What specific details of memory do you have, do you remember what year you rode in the car? Perhaps it was a drive in the country or was the occassion a trip to the city...with whom did you drive...accompanied by whom? ...
I wonder, would mind too terribly much if I presumed to ask for a copy of a photo with your grandfather and grandmother together? At Euxton House perhaps? Your grandfather with his business associates? Any such photo would be greatly appreciated. The biography/history I'm knitting together would be supported greatly with such photos. Scanned and e-mailed would be fine of course (as large as possible to render good detail for display with the car.)
You mention the chauffer, Barlow. I presume his family may still be about? Is it possible to track them? Perhaps a photo could be sourced there? Advice of any way to contact the family would be extremely helpful. Did Barlow serve your grandmother and mother as well?
When did your Grandmother pass away? Soon after Sir Stanley? I presume also that your mother has passed away as well? Answers to these questions would help me to patch together a time table of the change in ownership. Since you recall that your mom was able to use the car for a gala event, do you remember the year? If your mom or dad saw to the sale of the car, it would help me track one step farther. Would you perhaps have siblings or cousins that would remember the odd detail?
Are there records, a certificate of title or other odd document lying about, that could help track the sale of the car or other assets? Did Astley Industrial Trust handle the sale/transfer to a new owner or perhaps your grandfather's/grandmother's/mother's solicitor? Please believe me no detail is too small!
Whatever happened to Astley Industrial Trust?
Regards,
Rich Fewkes
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choppy2000
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 2
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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hi,this might be totally irrelevant,just googling names from my past,when i came across yours in a round about way,but i remember a Sir Stanley Bell,an imposing gentleman,being the father of Margaret Fenton who gave me my first job,at WESTFIELDS STUD,NR MORETON MORRELL,this was back in the 70's.
sadly for reasons i cannot recall Mrs Fenton left the area,if i remember correctly there were 4 children,Michael,Diana,Sarah,and David,also a Great Dane called sloopy and several yorkies and dachshunds.I apologize if this has no relevance to you.
regards john hopkins
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fenty
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 16
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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This has really cheered up my morning John. I do remember you a little as I was about 6. I was talking about Sloopy to my daughter the other day - you must remember her destroying all those cushions she found, all over the stableyard grass, feathers everywhere, I know it was such a mess but we loved those dogs!
David and I made the mistake of going back about 20 years ago and Phil Young had bought the yard and back fields and someone else the main house and destroyed it - a big mistake maybe to have gone back, it made us very sad.
My mother died in 2005, we left really because she could no longer make a going concern of the Stud - I think it was about 1972 and the economy was awful, but also because Grandpa had died and she had to move up to Euxton to sort out his estate. I was sent away to boarding school in Surrey. Diana I don't see anymore but Michael is in Cyprus in real estate and David married in Gloucestershire and a surveyor in Birmingham with two daughters, though we don't see them much.
Hoping you have kept well and are you still living locally - I do miss the countryside around there, although of course the motorway extension went through I think and have still put off getting a dog until we manage to get a bigger garden. My husband and I are currently in Sevenoaks as I am working as a Facilities (Commercial buildings) Director, but I am keen to move out West back to property country at some stage and finally get a dog.
Do keep in touch and let me know your news, it has made me very happy to hear from someone from my childhood when (my father is also dead), there are so few photos left.
Kindest regards
Sarah Fenton.
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choppy2000
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 2
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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hi again Sarah,it seems a bit strange talking to you,as the last time i saw you,you would of been about 5,saddens me about your mother passing away,she really had a big affect on my early working life,and it would of been nice to have spoke to her again.
Westfields is now split into about 3 parts,the house,the yard and the bottom half which belongs to George Baker the racehorse trainer.
I went down to Phil Youngs at 3gates after you left,but it was not the same,and i gave up the horses after about a year and went travelling the world,i am head designer now for a screenprinters and embroiderers,a long way from horses,still live locally,could never live in a town,
John Steele who had the top bungalow went to Shadwell Stud in Thetford,but is now general manager of Chippenham Lodge Stud in Ely,Cambs,have not been in contact with him for years though,even though he is my sons godfather,John Robson moved to Newmarket and have not heard of him since,the others i have no idea of there whereabouts,they were good days. I can still see sloopy with the cushions,she always had something to carry,she would even try to drag your brother around after she had knocked him over.I often walk my dog(choccy lab named Molly) through Westfields,next time i will try to take some photos of the place and send them to you,i have a few old ones but they were mainly of the horses in the yard.Well i wont take up any more of your time,really nice to have had the chance to talk,give my regards to your family.best wishes john
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fenty
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 16
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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John hi - thank you for your update. Sadly not sure whether photos of how it is now, will help.....I wonder which of the horses you had, those would be interesting photos to copy.
I remember Ma being truly inconsolable when Christina Rossetti died at Three Gates Stud (Phil Young's at the time) and could not forgive him, but also blamed herself for putting Barlow Fold in the pony box after weaning. The foals I remember best were Philipina, the Philip of Spain filly, the Pieces of Eight colt who did well and that very brassy chesnut that came back with an attitude problem. My Drifter who won the Craven Stakes at Newmarket, but failed in the 2000 Guinneas due to the ground, I think she bred by Ma in Ireland.
I am not sure if you knew Grandpa, I only saw him once in Warwickshire, but he owned Bar Point who won the Scottish Grand National in 56. He and Daddy were both NH - Daddy being in Fermoy (Fenton's big family there in Ireland), 1000 of the southern irish racing fraternity turned out for his funeral, the coffin drawn by horses - they (my parents) were both respected. Grandpa well, he WAS very intimidating, I gather even the letters from Churchill when he (Grandpa) was Northern Party Conservative Chairman, after Blackpool, were very congratulatory.
Bizarrely the only photo I have left is of Sloopy, my email is: smfenton@btopenworld.com and hopefully we can exchange photos for Christmas. Many thanks for your note and I am glad too that you have found a career that you are content with, best regards, Sarah.
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Tati
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 24891
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Hi all
Back to the original search.
So this was the family in 1881:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/07gb/
Joseph and Margaret were already married in 1871:
RG10/3948 16 2
Walmersley With Shuttleworth, Lancashire
Rowlands
Summerseat? Station
Joseph Bell, head, 24, Station Master, b. Yorkshire Hawksworth
Margaret, wife, 25, b. Lancashire Liverpool
Jane Bell, sister, unm, 20, Dressmaker, b. Yorkshire Halifax
So we're looking for a marriage sometime before 1871 but we don't know where.
Unfortunately there are too many possibles on FreeBMD - I'm afraid you'll have to get Thomas G's birth cert to find out Margaret's maiden name 
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"My dear, I think the English pronounce it 'appiness" Desire and hunger is the fire I breathe Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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fenty
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 16
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thanks so much everyone, I think were nearly done - just need to find TG's mystery wife.
If I can will try and complete all the Tree on both Grandpa and Grannies side on Ancestry. Thank you to everyone particularly Tati for their help, but also to Keith for the lovely photos of 'superstar' Jim Slevin, first captain of rugby league for Wigan; now my mother's red and white striped jockey's cap racing colours, which were chosen as a replica of the Wigan cap Jim would have worn, makes sense.
Kindest regards,
Sarah
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Tati
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 24891
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Thanks to the presence of sister Jane, we can trace back Joseph
1861
RG9/3578 17 28
Hessle, Yorkshire
Hessle Wood Lodge
Frances Bell, head, wid, 42, b. Newton on Ouse Yorkshire
Joseph, son, 13, scholar, b. Otley Yorks
Jane, dau, 9, b. Halifax Yorks
John Ledger, lodger, unm, 32, Gardener, b. Bishop ** Devon
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"My dear, I think the English pronounce it 'appiness" Desire and hunger is the fire I breathe Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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fenty
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 16
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi all. I have found another trail for Rebecca Bell/Johnson.
There was a Rebecca Johnson who is registered around Ormskirk but was born in Southport in 1867. She was in domestic service age 14 in the 1881 census with it looks like a sister Ellen, who is 3 years older to a very large family called Goodman living in Birkdale, a smart part of Liverpool.
Sadly if you search on her birthplace Southport in 1871, I cannot see anything, so the trail has run dry. I wonder if she was 'taken in' by the family.
Would like to pin down Rebecca, and am interested how a domestic servant extracated herself to meet and marry Thomas George Bell who had started such a successful wagon company...
Have found out on a Bell family board that Margaret Reason was the maiden name of Joseph Bell's wife and she was born in 1846 or thereabouts in I think Liverpool.
Best wishes Sarah
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Tati
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 24891
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That Rebecca was my favourite candidate as well, but without any proof it's a bit hazardous
In 1871 she's with her parents Robert and Ellen
1871
RG10/3875 90 27 & 28
North Meols, Lancashire
Southport
71 Boundary? Rd
Robert Johnson, head, 35, Gardener, b. Southport
Ellen, wife, 25, b. Liverpool
Mary, dau, 10, scholar, b. Lancs Halsall(?)
Ellen, dau, 7, scholar, b. do.
Rebecca, dau, 4, scholar, b. Southport
Elizabeth, dau, 1 mo, b. do.
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"My dear, I think the English pronounce it 'appiness" Desire and hunger is the fire I breathe Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Tati
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 24891
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And here's the only Margaret Reason born ca. 1845 Liverpool that I can see in 1861:
1861
RG9/2970 94 50
Cheetham, Lancashire
21 Whitfield St
Thomas Reason, head, 44, Letterpress Printer Compositior, b. Lincs Lincoln
Margaret, wife, 44, b. Lancashire Liverpool
John, son, unm, 22, Book Keeper, b. do.
Mary, dau, 18, Milliner, b. do.
Margaret, dau, 15, Milliner, b. do.
Ann, dau, 13, b. do.
Luke, son, 8, scholar, b. do.
Lavina, dau, 5, scholar, b. do.
Alice, dau, 3, scholar, b. Manchester
Sarah, dau, 8 mo, b. do.
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"My dear, I think the English pronounce it 'appiness" Desire and hunger is the fire I breathe Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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