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Topic: COMPLETED WITH MANY THANKS Joseph Cookson-Lambeth ? (Read 206 times)
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Captain2
RootsChat Member
Posts: 113
My Dear Grandma
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I have received a marriage cert for Joseph Cookson and Ellen Norris Lambeth Sept 1872 which poses more questions than answers!! No father is listed for Joseph (ahh). My query is where was Joseph Cookson before the 1871 census in Lambeth? He lists (on the 1871) birth place 'unknown'. On the 1881 census he lists his birth place as Lambeth and then on the 1891 census he lists his birth place as Addlestones in Surrey. He is consistent with his birth date as 1847; I have been unable to find a birth entry for Joseph, and was (hoping) for some answers with his marriage certificate - no luck. I am asking if anyone can kindly offer a look-up in the Lambeth area census for 1851/1861? Joseph's address for 1871,1881 & 1891 is William Street, Lambeth. I don't want to assume, however is it possible, rather than Joseph not knowing who his father was, he decided to leave his name off his marriage certificate ? Was that legal? Thanks for any help.
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HARE - Taunton, Somerset
COOKSON - London, England
HYDE - Berkshire, England
WOODLEY - Berkshire - Oxfordshire, England
NORRIS - Wiltshire, England
SMITH - Islington, Holborn, London, England
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lizdb
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9415
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This could explian all
1851
HO107 1495 766 9
Foundling hospital, Pancras
Joseph Cookson 4 no birthplace or details - it says for them all "not recorded, but baptized in the hospital" under birthplace
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lizdb
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9415
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Still there in 1861 (they seem to be an orphanage for children up to about 14 ish)
Rg9 108 76 3
birthplace "unknown"
I wouls imagine he was a foundling (abandoned baby)
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Captain2
RootsChat Member
Posts: 113
My Dear Grandma
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That is wonderful thank you. An elderly relative told me the tale of a 'foundling' placed in a home in London who was "said to be the illegitimate son of a titled family whose daughter ran away with a clergyman!" that is probably romantic fiction, however the truth was partially there in the rumour and indeed, thanks to your help, I have found 'our foundling' - my elderly aunt will be pleased! Many many thanks once again.
Regards Angie
PS I'm relatively new to Rootschat, have been researching on my own for years, I joined the site and have had so much help and advice - thank you all.
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HARE - Taunton, Somerset
COOKSON - London, England
HYDE - Berkshire, England
WOODLEY - Berkshire - Oxfordshire, England
NORRIS - Wiltshire, England
SMITH - Islington, Holborn, London, England
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dawnsh
Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3014
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Hi Angie
I've been to the London Metropolitan Archives and looked at the Foundling Hospital collection of papers they have there.
Have a look at this info leaflet
http://217.154.230.218/NR/rdonlyres/F54A5F9A-1394-406E-B971-7AFC796BE724/0/Infono31.pdf
I'm literally packed and ready to go away for a few days but wanted to send you some info to keep you busy over the next 4 days. I'm going back to the LMA on Monday to see what else I can find in the petition papers, but am not hopeful for one of those, it seemd they don't all survive.
From the baptism register
Aug 17th 1846 Joseph Cookson (no 20343)
From the General Register
Date of Acception 17th August (no 20343), when born 29 May 1846, when apprenticed 3 June 1861
From the apprentice registers
Joseph Cookson (no 20343) to John Allen of 11 Harleyford Street in the parish of Lambeth, White & Locksmith
added in later
asssigned on the 23rd May 1864 to F.D. W Smith of 12 Harleyford St, Kennington in the Parish of Lambeth, Builder & Smith
He ended his apprenticeship in 1868.
I will send you a full transcriptionlater but there isn't much more 'real' info, just column headings.
Hope this helps and isn't too tantalising.
Dawn
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukSherry-Paddington & Marylebone, Longhurst-Ealing & Capel, Abinger, Ewhurst & Ockley, Chandler-Chelsea |
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dawnsh
Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3014
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Hi Angie
Went back to the LMA at lunch time, but it seems his mother's petition papers either haven't survived, are at the Foundling Museum or have been given to a another family member researching him. It's unlikely to be either of the last 2 though as there isn't a withdrawal slip. The petition would not be there if his family had reclaimed him, but we now he was still there a bit later in life as he was apprenticed.
Weather depending, I'm going back to the LMA tomorrow lunchtime, one of their archivists has put me onto another possible document which I've ordered. I say weather depending as it's due to ran all day in London, it's a 15min walk there and 15 mins back and I don't relish the thought of getting wet.
I've discovered a bit more background info about the Foundling Hospital. If you got to the Access 2 Archives bit of the National Archives site
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/a2a/?source=ddmenu_search1
do an advanced search and type in Coram and the LMA as the repository, you get a potted history.
In 1846 he wouldn't have been an 'abandoned' baby ie left on the doorstep in a basket scenario. The mothers who wanted the Hospital to take their children had to 'make a petition' of their case, filling in a form and attaching their evidence in the form of letters written by themselves and others. He would most certainly have been illegitimate though. Like the others on his page in the general register, he was sent to the country to be wet-nursed, returned at a later date and survived to be apprenticed. Some children didn't survive and their records show this.
Once I've got all the info together I'll type it up for you.
Dawn
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukSherry-Paddington & Marylebone, Longhurst-Ealing & Capel, Abinger, Ewhurst & Ockley, Chandler-Chelsea |
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Captain2
RootsChat Member
Posts: 113
My Dear Grandma
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Dawn you are absolutely amazing! I hope you had a good few days off.. It's just fantastic that you have spent so much of your time looking for this info, I really do appreciate it.. Did you see my other post re Joseph's daughter Mary-Ann Cookson? The dates I have for Mary-Ann do not fit in with Joseph's marriage to Ellen Norris (Sept 1872) and I'm beginning to think that Ellen was not her mother, but Joseph's first wife (1869) Mary Ann Andrews was. I have sent for certs for wedding to Mary-Ann Andrews and her death in 1870 in the hope this may give a clue. I'm in danger of becoming a 'closet' certificate collector!! It's a very odd feeling when you wish you could tell your ancestor that you have probably found out more about them now, than they ever knew in their life time. Joseph knew he was a 'foundling' he told his children, however over the last 150 years that trangressed to a 'family rumour', but it is very true when they say there's a truth behind the rumour somewhere. What a star you are Dawn and a million thanks. Kind regards Angie
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HARE - Taunton, Somerset
COOKSON - London, England
HYDE - Berkshire, England
WOODLEY - Berkshire - Oxfordshire, England
NORRIS - Wiltshire, England
SMITH - Islington, Holborn, London, England
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dawnsh
Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3014
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Hi Angie
Finally got some peace and quiet here to add a few more comments to my earlier postings.
There is no more information to add from the baptism register.
From the General register, (this now makes a bit more sense based on my later findings.)
You already have his date of acception and number, the next column is titled
"Name & Surname and how disposed of"
it reads
Joseph Cookson ditto
this refers back to the first entry on the page which is
"send into the country"
From the apprentice register
(You have his name and his number that followed him all through the system)
To whom apprenticed: John Allen
Masters residence & his business: 11 Harleyford Street in the parish of Lambeth, county of Surrey. White & Locksmith - to be instructed in his business
Under his name there is a later addition
Assigned on the 23rd May 1864 to F.D. W Smith of number 12 Harleyford Street Kennington in the parish of Lambeth county of Surrey, Builder & Smith to be instructed in his business
There is a further notation in red ink 5 Guineas 68
Apprenticeships lasted 7 years, in Joseph's case 1861 to 1868.
For those of you who are following this topic, I have found a corresponding entry for Joseph Cookson in the Admissions Register, I have corresponded by pm with Angie, as the register gives the name of Joseph's birth mother.
There are 31 children listed on the same page, 1 was reclaimed, 13 apprenticed, 17 died.
According to this register, Joseph was sent to a wet nurse in Addlestone (how disposed of), before being returned to the hospital to grow and be educated.
The entry is completed with the date his apprenticeship finished, 8 June 1868.
With his mother's name I have also been able to find her petition (mis-filed) to the hospital for him to be taken in.
The petition gives more personal details about his mother and the circumstances she found herself in, his father is named.
For the sake of housekeeping, this topic is now completed.
I would like to add that this is the first time I've looked at the records of the Foundling Hospital at the LMA, they make fascinating reading.
Thank you Angie for posting your request, it's been a pleasure.
Dawn
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukSherry-Paddington & Marylebone, Longhurst-Ealing & Capel, Abinger, Ewhurst & Ockley, Chandler-Chelsea |
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