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Author Topic: Mysterious Jane Vickers born c 1816 Thornthwaite  (Read 809 times)
brushbroomstick
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John William Vickers & Emma Robson my grandparents


Mysterious Jane Vickers born c 1816 Thornthwaite
« on: Monday 27 July 09 14:03 UTC (UK) »

Here goes again with the same query.

I have been trying for a couple of years now to find the parents of this Jane Vickers born c 1816 in Thornthwaite. The 1841 census shows her and her husband Martin Cass to be living with her grandfather Joseph Vickers at Powter Howe. Again in 1851 she is with Joseph at the same place. I think this Joseph Vickers born c 1771 in Thornthwaite is my 3x gr grandfather, his son William born 1798 being my 2x gr grandfather.

I have today received Jane Vickers copy marriage certificate for 2/2/1839  but am no further forward.

The certificate states her to be of full age and her father to be Joseph Vickers , farmer.

I have not been able to trace a Joseph Vickers born  to the Joseph of 1771, nor have I been able to trace a Jane Vickers born c 1816.

Can anyone help solve the mystery.

Irene
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maryd
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Re: Mysterious Jane Vickers born c 1816 Thornthwaite
« Reply #1 on: Monday 27 July 09 23:24 UTC (UK) »

Hi
I have Elizabeth Vickers b 1858/9 Dearham d. of John Vickers and Sarah Smith, and sister of Mary b 1855 and Sarah b 1860.....she was living at St Bees at the time of her marriage on 22.06.1878 to Joh Lowery. Also have family of Isaac Vickers of Brigham/ Parton who had a daughter Jane  b 1838....but can't see a link to a Jane b 1816...have some notes tho if of any help.
maryd
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brushbroomstick
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John William Vickers & Emma Robson my grandparents


Re: Mysterious Jane Vickers born c 1816 Thornthwaite
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 28 July 09 10:05 UTC (UK) »

Hi Mary

I don't think your family are the ones I am looking for but thank you anyway.

I have a Jane Vickers born c 1826 daughter of my gr grandfather William Vickers and his wife Mary Fearon (this is not the Jane I am looking for) and from my research William's father was Joseph born c 1771 . In 1841/1851 the Jane Vickers c 1816 (married name Cass) was living with her grandfather Joseph c 1771 . I obtained a copy of her marriage certificate which gives her father also as Joseph. The probplem is that although I have 5 children for Joseph c 1771 I cannot find a son called Joseph for him who would be Jane's father.

Irene
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bobgraham
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Re: Mysterious Jane Vickers born c 1816 Thornthwaite
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 28 July 09 13:30 UTC (UK) »

Irene, you mention Jane in 1841 and 1851. Have you checked 1861 by which time she is not with grandad? In which case he could be the Joseph who died in Q1 1859 or Q1 1860. Might be worth getting them to see who registered the death - could be granddaughter or her husband if they were living there.
Also does marriage cert state deceased next to father? If not he's still alive in 1839 and there are no suitable deaths before 1848 Q3 so you should be able to find him in 1841.
Good luck
bob
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brushbroomstick
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John William Vickers & Emma Robson my grandparents


Re: Mysterious Jane Vickers born c 1816 Thornthwaite
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 28 July 09 13:54 UTC (UK) »

Hi Bob

The marriage cert does not say father Joseph is deceased and that he is a farmer as is her grandfather Joseph. her address is only given as Thornthwaite.
In 1861 Jane and her husband Martin Cass are still at Powter Howe (the farm she was at with grandfather Joseph in 1841/1851). This appears to have been a large establishment owned by a Miss Gibson and Joseph c 1771 was first shown as woodman and butcher then perp. overseer in 1847.

I will liik in 1841 census to see if I can find Jane's father Joseph.

Irene
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bobgraham
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Re: Mysterious Jane Vickers born c 1816 Thornthwaite
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 28 July 09 14:10 UTC (UK) »

But grandad Joseph's not there in 1861. So likelyhood is that is 1 of the deaths is him and 1771 to 1851 makes him 80. In fact if you are reasonably confident of his birth date you should be able to pick him by age at death which should be on the cert but not on the index at this time.
bob
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Geoff-E
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Re: Mysterious Jane Vickers born c 1816 Thornthwaite
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 28 July 09 14:14 UTC (UK) »

It's certainly not unknown for children who were illegitimate and brought up by grandparents to name a grandfather as "father" when they married.
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AnneMc
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Re: Mysterious Jane Vickers born c 1816 Thornthwaite
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 28 July 09 14:19 UTC (UK) »

My 3 xgreatgrandmother put down her grandfather's name for her father on her marriage certificate. Took me a few years to realize this and I could not connect her to the family. Her mother was the daughter of her grandfather.
I finally found her baptism records by checking out all the birth places she had listed on the census record.

So it is possible that Joseph is her grandfather and she did not know the name of her own father.

cheers
anne
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trish1120
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Re: Mysterious Jane Vickers born c 1816 Thornthwaite
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 28 July 09 15:36 UTC (UK) »

Hi Smiley

I presume you think Jane is the daughter of William VICKERS, christened 25 March 1798, Thornthwaite, parents Joseph Vickers and Mary GAITSKEL?

Other siblings of William are;
John, 26 April 1795
Betty, 29 December 1796
Mary, 1 January 1805

I would think she is possibly the illegitimate daughter of Betty born 1796.
I agree with everyone that she probably put her Grandfathers name as her Father on marriage cert.

Trish
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brushbroomstick
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Re: Mysterious Jane Vickers born c 1816 Thornthwaite
« Reply #9 on: Tuesday 28 July 09 16:40 UTC (UK) »

There are 2 Janes in my tree - one born c 1826  the daughter of  my gr gr grandparents  William Vickers and Mary Fearon  and the other born c 1818 who gives her father as Joseph.
Joseph Vickers c 1771 is the father of William 1798 and the grandfather of both Janes.

I do agree that Joseph's 1771s daughter  Betty is a likely candidate for Jane c 1818s mother. In fact  I have just found a baptism record on Ancestry giving a Jane Vickers with mother Betty Vickers but as I have only the basic subscription I cannot view it.

Irene
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Geoff-E
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Re: Mysterious Jane Vickers born c 1816 Thornthwaite
« Reply #10 on: Tuesday 28 July 09 17:12 UTC (UK) »

I see the IGI does not have Thornthwaite baptisms for the years in question

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~hughwallis/IGIBatchNumbers/CountyCumberland.htm#PageTitle
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emmsthheight
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Re: Mysterious Jane Vickers born c 1816 Thornthwaite
« Reply #11 on: Tuesday 11 August 09 23:49 UTC (UK) »

Hi

Thornthwaite go back to 18C, including on the IGI.

See Example.

url]http://www.rootschat.com/links/0bq/ [/url]

Best wishes

Emms
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emmsthheight
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Re: Mysterious Jane Vickers born c 1816 Thornthwaite
« Reply #12 on: Tuesday 11 August 09 23:50 UTC (UK) »

For some reason it repeated, so I've deleted it.

It does look as if she was Grandaughter though.

Emms
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emmsthheight
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Re: Mysterious Jane Vickers born c 1816 Thornthwaite
« Reply #13 on: Tuesday 11 August 09 23:55 UTC (UK) »

Hi

Thornthwaite go back to 18C, including on the IGI.

See Example.

[Modified: It won't let me give the example, but searching for Vickers in Cumberland will give many before 1800 and clicking on a name will give batch numbers.]

Baptisms start 1775, marriages 1842 and burials 1891.

familysearch.org

 Igi seems to start about the same date.
Best wishes

Emms
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Geoff-E
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Re: Mysterious Jane Vickers born c 1816 Thornthwaite
« Reply #14 on: Wednesday 12 August 09 07:12 UTC (UK) »

Thornthwaite go back to 18C, including on the IGI.


The link I gave says the IGI batch covers

1776-1782
1795-1819
1837-1871

Can you find anything for the "missing" years? I can't.  They could have had half a dozen more kids bap before 1795, but you won't find them in the IGI.
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