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Topic: *Sparkle* Scavenger Hunt...Everyone Welcome To Join In. (Read 752 times)
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Tephra
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3051
I Got Me Pink Slippers........YeeeHaaa
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Welcome to this weeks Scavenger Hunt and I'm sure after reading through you'll really want to help Sparkle as it's an extra special Hunt.
Please read through Post 1 and Post 2 before you start the Hunt.
Good Luck and Good Hunting.
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Search for the birth of John Hogg (b. 1883-1888 d. 1915) from Berwick, England OR Berwickshire, Scotland
In short I NEED to find the birth certificate of John Hogg as he is not and can not be listed on the Scottish national War memorial without it.
A brief bit of background info before I launch into the facts I have already gathered to save anyone re-doing anything. I first came across John whilst looking for the family members who emigrated to New Zealand with whom my Great Grandmother corresponded with until about 1970,when contact was lost. All I has was a place: Auckland, and a name: Flo. I have since established Flo was Barbara’s sister in law who married Peter Hogg, a brother. It was on the search for this missing family branch that I stumbled across the name John Hogg.
John was listed on the Roberton, Roxburghshire war memorial as:
JOHN HOGG 7th.REGT. N.Z.E.F
http://warmemscot.s4.bizhat.com/warmemscot-ftopic795.html&highlight=hogg
John died of septicaemia due to a bullet wound in his thigh in May 1915 after the ANZAC landings at Gallipoli.
After a conversation about John with an amazing man called Derek Robertson, who is writing a book about the folk of Hawick in the Great War, it led to this thread on the 1914 Forum about his service:
http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t93271.html
In summary, due to some fabulous detective work, it was established that he enlisted in the NZEF in 1914 as John HOGG SMITH!!! I do not know where the Smith surname came from but I am happy he is definitely the same person as John Hogg due to the Todshawhaugh reference (family farm). His birth date is noted as 12 August 1883 which does not tie in with his age on the 1901 census, and I do not believe he was old enough to have served with the Durham Light Infantry for 9 years prior to emigrating in 1912.
In the service records his next of kin was originally noted as Mrs W Smith of Todshawhaugh, Roberton, then crossed out and replaced with Anges Hogg (mother), Gladstone Street, Hawick, Roxburghshire.
From the NZ cenotaph listings:
Surname SMITH
Given Name John Hogg
Category Nominal Roll Vol. 1
Regimental Number 10/534
Rank Private
Body or Draft Main Body
Unit or Regiment Wellington Infantry Batln
Marital Status S
Last NZ Address Ohakune
Next of Kin Title W
Next of Kin Surname SMITH
Next of Kin Address Todshauhaugh Hawick Scotland
Died at Gallipoli, May 1915. Cenotaph page here.
I believe John to be either the brother or half brother of Barbara Jeffrey Hogg (b. 15 Jan 1892). I am unsure if he shares a father or a mother with Barbara. Barbara’s Parents are Alexander Hogg (b. 17 Sep 1860 Hownam, Roxburghshire, d. 3 Mar 1940 14 Gladstone Street, Hawick) and Agnes Hoy Jeffrey (b. 17 Nov 1870 Coldstream, Berwickshire, d. 23 Aug 1946 14 Gladstone Street, Hawick). Both Agnes and Alexander were illegitimate, although Alexander’s birth was later legitimised by the marriage of his parents Peter Hogg and Ann Davidson. And although their marriage date and place (28 June 1889, Southshields, Durham) are listed on the certificates of the children born in Scotland, there is NO record of their marriage, and I believe I have exhausted all avenues, so have to conclude that they did not actually marry.
I had some help on here establishing this:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,303748.0.html
Now as for census records I can find John on the 1901 census as follows:
Alexander HOGG b.17.9.1860 d.3.3.1940 Hawick, Head of household
Agnes HOGG nee JEFFREY b.10.10.1858 d.23.8.1946 Hawick, Wife
John HOGG b abt 1888 Gordon, Berwickshire
Mary HOGG b abt 1890 Durham d. 1987 Hawick
Peter HOGG b abt 1891 Traquair
Barbara Jeffrey HOGG b.15.1.1892 Traquair d.1982 Hawick
Thomas Davidson HOGG b. abt 1893
Annie HOGG b. abt 1896
The rest of the family is listed in 1891 living at Howford, Traquair, Peebles WITHOUT John:
Alexnder HOGG Head age 29 b. Hounam, Roxburghshire Occ: Ploughman
Agnes HOGG Wife age 20 b. Coldstream Berwickshire
Mary HOGG Dau age 1 b. England
Peter HOGG Son age 2 Mo b. Traquair, Peebles
I can not find John on the 1891 census. Is he with a different Mother? Is he in England? Is he in Scotland? Is he John Smith or John Hogg? I would love to know and this may be the key.
I have established that John emigrated to Auckland, New Zealand in 22 June 1912 with his brother Peter Hogg.
So in Summary I would like to find John’s birth record and evidence of parents, and to find him in the 1891 census.
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Onley/Only/Olney In Islington.
Abbott In Islington
Wallwork In Bolton and Walkden
Lamb In Bolton and Ireland
Grundy In Bolton
Blackledge In Bolton
Osbaldeston ?? ??
Barnett in Islington
Binyon in Islington
Kitchen in Bolton
Parker in Bolton
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Keeweegal
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 271
Sarah Moss - a tough old gal
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I think I need a scotch first.
Good luck
Kimberly 
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*sparkle*
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 307
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Hello, I'm reporting in!
Hope this hunt is not too daunting 
Here is a picture of John's reputed parents Agnes and Alexander, to inspire. Its taken at the family farm Todshawhaugh  They are the couple on the left, whilst John's (half??) sister Barbara is the lady stood on the right.
I'm working this afternoon, but I shall keep checking back here when I get the chance.
Thanks
Tracey
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jaywit
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1863
I will find them wherever they are hiding
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I know nothing about Scottish family history but looking at the 1891 census index I can see a John Hogg age 3 born and living in Gordon with his parents and siblings.
Have you followed him through and discounted him?
Also looking at Alexander and Agnes, Alexander was about 10 years older than Agnes. Have you found them on earlier census returns or looked for a previous marriage for Alexander?
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Cross Steeple Claydon Bucks, Jennings Steeple Claydon Bucks, Steel Byfield Northants, Rogers Northants, Wheeler Oxon, Roberts Oxon, Bonham Oxon/ Middleton Cheney Northants, Maycock Northants, Abbott Northants , Newman Northants, Buckingham Bucks, Hart Warks, Newth Gloucs.
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jaywit
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1863
I will find them wherever they are hiding
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There is an Alexander Hogg of the correct age living in Gordon in 1901.
Alexander Hogg
Spouse: Margaret
Birth: abt 1860 - Smailholm, Roxburghshire
Residence: Gordon, Berwickshire
Wife has a different name but I think you may have to be very careful untangling these families.
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Cross Steeple Claydon Bucks, Jennings Steeple Claydon Bucks, Steel Byfield Northants, Rogers Northants, Wheeler Oxon, Roberts Oxon, Bonham Oxon/ Middleton Cheney Northants, Maycock Northants, Abbott Northants , Newman Northants, Buckingham Bucks, Hart Warks, Newth Gloucs.
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*sparkle*
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 307
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Lesanne - I see what you mean about John 'Alexander' Smith. Its worth checking out. I'll report back in a minute.
jaywit - Alexander is listed in the initial post in 1901 with the rest of the family
I checked and discounted the John Hogg aged 3 in 1891, as he appears with the same family in 1901. (I seem to remember he did, does anyone want to confirm this while I spend some credits with SP ;-) )
Back in a few minutes...
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*sparkle*
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 307
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I meant to say I had looked for a previous marriage for Alexander but came up blank.
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jaywit
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1863
I will find them wherever they are hiding
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Did you look in England for a marriage? There are a couple of Alexander Hogg marriages in Durham/Northumberland in the 1880s
If Alexander was Mary's father he had to be in England at some time unless Agnes went to stay with relatives to give birth to what was as you say an illigitimate child.
Agnes was only 19ish when Mary was born, although it was possible she gave birth to John in Scotland earlier it seems unlikely.
On that point have you looked for the possible birth of a John Jeffrey/Smith Jeffrey.
Again as to what Agnes was doing in South Shields or near by? Was it possible she was involved in the herring fishing industry? Again I don't know anything about this other than it involved Scottish women travelling to England.
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Cross Steeple Claydon Bucks, Jennings Steeple Claydon Bucks, Steel Byfield Northants, Rogers Northants, Wheeler Oxon, Roberts Oxon, Bonham Oxon/ Middleton Cheney Northants, Maycock Northants, Abbott Northants , Newman Northants, Buckingham Bucks, Hart Warks, Newth Gloucs.
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*sparkle*
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 307
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Sorry... didn't realise I was breaking copyright 
Have now rephrased it...
Jeffrey/jafferey/jaffrey in Berwickshire, Scotland
1882 JOHN M CHIRNSIDE
1882 JOHN M CHIRNSIDE
1889 JOHN EDWARD M AYTON
1889 JOHN TAIT M FOULDEN
1888 JOHN WALTER M COLDSTREAM
I ordered the last one on a whim but it wasn't him.
No likley Jeffrey/Jaffrey/Jefferey candidates in berwickshire, but I havent checked English Births. Will Check Durham as well as Northumberland.
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« Last Edit: Tuesday 28 July 09 17:23 UTC (UK) by Copyright-Editor »
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*sparkle*
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 307
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This is a typical birth entry showing the fake marriage date of Alexander Hogg and Agnes Jeffrey:
I've taken off the image incase I'm breaking coyright, but it basically has the marriage stated as:
1889, June 28th
at Southshields,
England
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jaywit
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1863
I will find them wherever they are hiding
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Sparkle I think the porkie Alexander and Agnes were trying to tell was the same as is turning up on the 1911 census ie. that they married just before the birth of their first child. That makes Mary their first child. So I don't think John was their child.
I know it still leaves you with the problem of who John was, but I think the only way is to put John no surname born 1888+/- 1 in Gordon into the 1891 census and see what that throws up. Then try and follow up the Johns in 1901 to see if one has disappeared.
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Cross Steeple Claydon Bucks, Jennings Steeple Claydon Bucks, Steel Byfield Northants, Rogers Northants, Wheeler Oxon, Roberts Oxon, Bonham Oxon/ Middleton Cheney Northants, Maycock Northants, Abbott Northants , Newman Northants, Buckingham Bucks, Hart Warks, Newth Gloucs.
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O'eck... re - reading...
SAVE0025_Small.JPG
erm... just to start... 