|
Pages: [1] 2
|
 |
|
Author
|
Topic: Sans Souci Lodge Sans Souci Park Belfast (Read 769 times)
|
bradbrend
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 37
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
|
Ga' day from Australia,
To My wife's surprise she has just discovered her father was born 1901 in Sans Souci Lodge, Sans Souci Park Belfast and that his father (her Grandfather) was a Taylor in Hillman St Belfast. What a surprise. She only ever new them as farmers who worked the land in Ballymena where she was born and raised. We would be pleased if anyone could give us any information on Sans Souci Lodge. We presume it was a boarding house, if so, we wonder why he would board if he was married with a child and had a business. Thanks
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
|
aghadowey
Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 13678
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
|
Is Taylor the surname or is father's occupation tailor? On the certificate is the birth address listed as well as the residence of the father? Could have been a private nursing home.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
your pete
RootsChat Member
Posts: 161
My school blazer went everywhere!
|
Hi Bradbrend,
I have had a look at old survey maps for the area.
Sans Souci Park is off the Malone Road in the south of the city. It appears from maps covering 1851-1883 that there was a single house with grounds and a gate lodge where Sans Souci Park now is. The house is named "Sans Souci". I reckon that the gate lodge to the house is the "Lodge" you refer to. In maps covering 1883-1920 the Gate lodge is there but the main house has gone and the road named Sans Souci Park is now formed with some houses built/developed. In the maps covering 1920-1952 the gate lodge has gone. The site of it is now No. 68 Malone Road (including the side gardens) which is a large semi-detached house on the corner of Malone Road and Sans Souci Park.
This street directory site may be some help. http://www.lennonwylie.co.uk/
Sans Souci is a French term meaning "without care", in other words, "no worries".
Hopefull there should be a photo of 66-68 Malone Road attached - found on Google images - 68 is the right side of the house.
|
Garton - Hull, Welton, Brough, Elloughton, Beverley, Polruan, Massachusetts
Measham - Whitwood, Pontefract; Derby, Ripton
Hookham - Glanford Brigg, Appleby
Vaughan - Portadown
Scott - Belfast
Fetherstonhaugh - Belfast
Allen - Belfast
Cooke - Portadown
|
|
|
DixieDee
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 581
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
|
Hi.
Sans Souci Lodge was more than likely the gate lodge to Sans Souci House. Your relative may have worked for the owners of the Big House, perhaps as a gardener. When I was a kid there were still a number of gate lodges still about the Malone Road. Only one I can think of that's still standing is across the road from Sans Souci, on the left corner of Derryvolgie Ave.
Holyrood House next to Sans Souci also had a lodge, but I think it's long gone since Queen's University built their Halls of Residence there.
Two Taylor families in Hillman St., in 1907 street directory from Lennon Wylie website.
8 Hillman Street.
Robert Taylor, fitter.
236 Hillman Street.
W. Taylor, clerk.
Regards,
Dixie
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Antrim. Campbell, Carson,Dickson, Gilmore, Creaney
Down. Dickson, Fairley, Irvine, McCune, Carlisle,
Wilson, Quinn
|
|
|
bradbrend
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 37
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
|
A big thank you to all of you wonderful people who took the time to do some research on my behalf.
I do apologies in that I was not specific in my query and my spelling of tailor did not help. The family name is Bamber, the g/father (Samuel) was a Tailor by profession.
The place of birth and fathers residence are the same Sans Souci Lodge.
I had a look at Lennonylie site (thank you) and there is a Balmber Saml., - Taylor. 209 Hillman St. Surname is spelt differently but this can still happen today.
"your pete" info confirms there was a lodge to the main house but the map 1883-1920 shows the main house had gone, so perhaps they bought or rented the gate lodge.
Again thank you all for your input
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
bradbrend
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 37
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
|
OOPS! sorry, done it again, should be Balmber Saml., Tailor
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
DixieDee
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 581
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
|
Hillman Street, along with a few other local streets, appears to have been left out of the 1911 census for the Duncairn area. Two others I know of are Cosgrove and Copperfield Streets.
Dixie
***** Found it in Dock Ward, sorry about that. My wife told me I was on the wrong side of Duncairn Gardens for it.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Antrim. Campbell, Carson,Dickson, Gilmore, Creaney
Down. Dickson, Fairley, Irvine, McCune, Carlisle,
Wilson, Quinn
|
|
|
bradbrend
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 37
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
|
Thank you DixieDee
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
scotmum
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1301
Look back, look around, look forward!
|
Was your wife's husband named John? If yes, could this be the family in 1911:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai001363894/
Just a thought:
Note that the John is recorded as grandson and the only other person named as married is Samuel, son of head of household who is also a Samuel. Samuel, John's dad, does not have a wife recorded on the return (only females are noted as single). Could it be that Samuel was originally a tailor in Belfast, and something happened to his wife (he is not recorded as widowed, rather married) and he returned to Ballymena to have support of family in bringing up John, and that he reverted to being a farmer along with his own father, also a Samuel? Or, one of the single females is actually his wife and wrongly recorded as single and given age of Samuel snr, Samuel has just returned to Ballymena to learn the ropes in order to take over from his father.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
STEWART, Lanarkshire, Scotland and Fermanagh/Monaghan border areas, Ireland
LILLEY, County Antrim, Ireland (now NI).
HENDERSON,Lanarkshire,Scotland and probably County Londonderry, Ireland (now NI).
CAPE Cumberland, England & Lanarkshire, Scotland
SCOTT Cumberland, England & Lanarkshire, Scotland
|
|
|
kingskerswell
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1107
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
|
Hi,
I may be a little confused, but your wife's memory of being born and raised on a farm near Ballymena ties in with the details of a Bamber couple raising a family in the 1870s in the Galgorm district of Ballymena. The same family were still there in the 1911 census. They are described as farmers. There is a head of family, Samuel, age 64 and a son, Samuel age 35 also a farmer, and a grandson, John. The younger Samuel is married but no wife is listed. The elder Samuel is a widow and three daughters are still living at home.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Stewart, Irwin, Morrison, Haslett, Murrell - Co. Londonderry
Browne, Barrett -Co.Armagh
Neil, Smyth _Co. Antrim
|
|
|
scotmum
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1301
Look back, look around, look forward!
|
Kingskerswell......snap, we have had same thought....see my post above yours.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
STEWART, Lanarkshire, Scotland and Fermanagh/Monaghan border areas, Ireland
LILLEY, County Antrim, Ireland (now NI).
HENDERSON,Lanarkshire,Scotland and probably County Londonderry, Ireland (now NI).
CAPE Cumberland, England & Lanarkshire, Scotland
SCOTT Cumberland, England & Lanarkshire, Scotland
|
|
|
scotmum
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1301
Look back, look around, look forward!
|
A search of Grave Inscriptions for Ballymena has:
a 1918 stone in the Old Churchyard, Ahoghill - it was erected by Samuel Bamber of Galgorm Parks
and partly reads:
"...his father and mother Samuel Bamber who died.....1918 aged 73 years Margaret Bamber who died.......1886 aged 42 years........his brother John who died.......1896 aged 27 years And his sister who died.....1917 aged 44 years Also his sister Isabella Boyd Lennox who died.....1952 aged 68 years"
above found at and partly quoted from the Inscriptions found online at The Braid website.
Full details can be read by searching Bamber at:
http://www.thebraid.com/genealogy.aspx
which has the above and other Bamber entries.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
STEWART, Lanarkshire, Scotland and Fermanagh/Monaghan border areas, Ireland
LILLEY, County Antrim, Ireland (now NI).
HENDERSON,Lanarkshire,Scotland and probably County Londonderry, Ireland (now NI).
CAPE Cumberland, England & Lanarkshire, Scotland
SCOTT Cumberland, England & Lanarkshire, Scotland
|
|
|
bradbrend
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 37
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
|
Was your wife's husband named John? If yes, could this be the family in 1911: http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai001363894/Just a thought: Note that the John is recorded as grandson and the only other person named as married is Samuel, son of head of household who is also a Samuel. Samuel, John's dad, does not have a wife recorded on the return (only females are noted as single). Could it be that Samuel was originally a tailor in Belfast, and something happened to his wife (he is not recorded as widowed, rather married) and he returned to Ballymena to have support of family in bringing up John, and that he reverted to being a farmer along with his own father, also a Samuel? Or, one of the single females is actually his wife and wrongly recorded as single and given age of Samuel snr, Samuel has just returned to Ballymena to learn the ropes in order to take over from his father.
Good thinking. My wife's father was John, same John in the census and we too came to the conclusion the grandfather returned to take over the farm. My wife remembers her g/father and aunts (who did not marry until later in life) listed on the census. As previously stated she was just so surprised having known her g/father & g/mother and having been raised in the same house (and nursed him in later years) was anything but a farmer. His wife is not on the census obviously elsewhere.
Thanks for your input
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
bradbrend
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 37
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
|
A search of Grave Inscriptions for Ballymena has: a 1918 stone in the Old Churchyard, Ahoghill - it was erected by Samuel Bamber of Galgorm Parks and partly reads: "...his father and mother Samuel Bamber who died.....1918 aged 73 years Margaret Bamber who died.......1886 aged 42 years........his brother John who died.......1896 aged 27 years And his sister who died.....1917 aged 44 years Also his sister Isabella Boyd Lennox who died.....1952 aged 68 years" above found at and partly quoted from the Inscriptions found online at The Braid website. Full details can be read by searching Bamber at: http://www.thebraid.com/genealogy.aspxwhich has the above and other Bamber entries.
Another thank you scotmum. The said headstone erected is that of my wifes gt/grandfather & mother and other family members and has been visited by my wife.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2
|
|
|
|
|
68_Malone_Road.jpg