SC
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 538
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Would it be possible to find these two couples in Derby(shire) in 1891 and 1901
The two wives were sisters, married on the same day in 1889 in Derby
Henry or Harry Hole b c1860 Eastwood/Langley Hill, Notts and his wife Eliza (may also be listed as Mary Eliza) b 1863 in Arnold, Notts
Harry was a miner in 1881 but could well be an innkeper by 1901
James Harrison b c1854 Derby probably an iron moulder or similar occup and his wife Elizabeth b 1859 Derby
Any help would be much appreciated
Thanks
SC
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« Last Edit: Tuesday 15 September 09 23:54 UTC (UK) by SC »
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karenlee
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3538
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Hi SC
This looks like them...
1891 Census England Derbyshire St Werburgh
RG12/2731/118/1
5 Great Northern Road
HOLE
Harry Head Marr 30 Langley Mill Nottingham
Eliza Wife Marr 27 Arnold Nottingham
Annie E Dau Unmarr 5mths Derby
Harry's occupation was hard to work out as it was shown as "ditto" the occupation above which was Police Constable... but then it had been crossed out.
1901 Census England Derbyshire Derby
RG13/3214/149/36
22 Talbot Street
HOLE
Harry Head Marr 39 InnKeeper Pub Langley Hill Notts
Eliza Wife Marr 38 Arnold Notts
Annie E Dau Unmarr 10 Derby
Samuel H Son Unmarr 9 Derby
Hannah E Dau Unmarr 7 Derby
Henry Father Wid 84 Tansley Derby
Fanny TAYLOR Serv Unmarr 19 General Domestic Servant Chesterfield
Karenlee
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SC
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 538
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi karenlee
Thank you very much for finding Harry - looks good as he ended up as an innkeeper and also his father Henry is there with him
Interesting to see what the story is with Elizabeth
Many thanks
SC
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karenlee
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3538
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SC
Not having much luck tracing Elizabeth and James HARRISON. There are a couple of possibles but the occupation for James is always wrong.... cotton spinner, coal merchant... but nothing like iron moulder coming up.
Will keep trying... would you like me to post the possibles just in case??
Cheers
Karenlee
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SC
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 538
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi again
Thanks for your help
Yes I would appreciate the possibles please, these people did seem to keep changing occupations!!
Thanks
SC
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karenlee
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3538
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deleted.. double posting
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karenlee
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3538
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Okay, I did a check on FreeBMD to see what the maiden name of both wives was and then found this that looks promising...
1891 Census England Derbyshire St Peter
RG12/2727/32/22
35 Siddale Road "Melbourne Arms"
HARRISON
James Head Marr 32 Licensed Victualler Pub Yorkshire Doncaster
Elizabeth Wife Marr 31 Derby
Ellen PICKARD Sister In Law 22 Living on her Own Means Arnold Nottinghamshire
Annie HARRIS Serv Unmarr 17 General Domestic Servant Derbyshire Crich
Anne MOORE Visitor Wid 50 Nurse Domestic Servant Derbyshire Aston
Interestingly on the 1881 Census both Ellen and Elizabeth are at 11 Siddals Road at the "Melbourne Arms" with their uncle Joseph ROPER who is the Publican.
Still looking for them in 1901
Cheers
Karenlee
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karenlee
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3538
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In 1901 the "Melbourne Arms" is occupied by James G EVANS and his wife Ellen EVANS. Ellen was born in Arnold Nottinghamshire. Looks like the Hotel stayed in the family for a while.
This is the most likely entry for James and Elizabeth in 1901..
1901 Census England Derbyshire Derby
RG13/3213/77/30
15 Sacheverel ?? Street
HARRISON
James Head Marr 59 Coal Merchant Derbyshire Derby
Elizabeth Wife Marr 41 Derbyshire Derby
Cheers
Karenlee
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karenlee
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3538
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It seems that the family were very much in the Hotel trade, as Eliza was a Barmaid on the 1881 Census with her aunt and uncle Samuel and Eliza ELKINGTON Canal Street Derby.
Cheers
Karenlee
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SC
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 538
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi again karenlee
Should have done my reply off site and cut and pasted as I lost it when the last post came through
Well, I think you hit the jackpot with all those censuses
Nice that the pub stayed in the family
All the girls received bequests from their uncle Joseph as I had sent for his will and was reading it yesterday
Joseph had no children of his own and his wife had just died
The Eliza you found in 1881 with Elkington gives me more research to do as I did not have that name as a connection to the family and there is a dau Mary who I thought was Mary Eliza still home with her parents which means there were 4 girls not three and she must have died as she is not mentioned in the will
Food for thought!
Will continue this tomorrow
Many many thanks
SC
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SC
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 538
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi again
The Eliza Pickard you found in 1881 is definitely this family
Samuel's wife is Eliza Hullett (Ulyett) - I have found their marriage in 1864 and she was one I hadn't researched yet so another puzzle piece fitted in
Interestingly enough I have another Elkington (Ellington) from Moreton-Pinkney in my tree but linked to the other side of my mother's family but it's 20 years earlier than Samuel and I don't immediately see a connection
There were 4 Hullett girls from Farnsfield, Notts - Mary Ann m Joseph Roper, Hannah m John Dennis and stayed in Farnsfield, Ellen m Henry Pickard and Eliza m Samuel Elkington
The puzzle now remains of Mary Pickard b 1865 in Arnold to Henry and Ellen since it is now obvious that she and Eliza are not one and the same
1861 census Henry and Eliza and Elizabeth age 1 are with Henry's sister Maria in Arnold
1871 census Henry and Ellen and Elizabeth age 11, Mary age 5 and Nelly(Ellen) age 2 are in Arnold
1881 census Henry and Ellen and Mary age 17 are in Bulwell and Elizabeth and Ellen are with Joseph Roper and you found Ellen with Samuel and Eliza
Ellen Pickard died in Jun 1889 and Henry in 1890 so he at least saw two girls married
So where was dau Eliza Pickard in 1871??
There are only 2 Eliza Pickard births on FreeBMD in Basford Dist - Sep 1863 who I think must be mine b in Arnold and Jun 1865 one b Basford who belongs to Edward Pickard and Mary Ann who happen to be very distantly related to mine through a spouse!!
I would be very interested to know where Eliza is in 1871
Any help would be much appreciated
SC
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karenlee
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3538
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Hi
This looks promising..... she had been transcribed as Eliza RICHARD.... but the family she is with is familiar 
1871 Census England Derbyshire
RG10/3612/41/25
ELKINGTON
Samuel Head Marr50 Coal Miner Nottinghamshire Marton
Eliza Wife Marr 39 Shop Keeper Nottinghamshire Farnsfield
Eliza PICKARD Niece Unmarr 7 Scholar Nottinghamshire Arnold
Joseph HEWITT Lodger Unmarr 45 Coal Miner Derbyshire Newbold
Cheers
Karenlee
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SC
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 538
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Karenlee
Thank you so much for finding Eliza - as you said the family is familiar!
So now I know there were 4 girls
Of the 4 Hullett girls only Ellen had children, the other three were childless
Couldn't find a death for the dau Mary Pickard but for some reason she was left out of the will
I'm now going to see if I can find Henry's will and see if it will shed any light on that
Thank you so much for all your help
SC
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karenlee
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3538
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Hi
There is a death for a Mary Ann PICKARD aged 26 in Arnold area in 1884. This could be your Mary.
Cheers
Karenlee
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SC
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 538
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi
Thanks but that one is probably the other Eliza's mother (Edward's wife)
Mine would only be 19 or 20 in 1884
SC
Correction Edward's wife would be 40 or so
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