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Topic: Sarah RICHARDS b c 1826 - Bedwellty(?) (Read 223 times)
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brentor boy
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 37
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Sarah Richards married Robert Smith in Llanharran in 1847. She is shown as a servant , of Llanharran Village, daughter of Nicholas Richards, collier.
In 1851 her age is given as 25, her birthplace as Bedwellty. These details are repeated (age adjusted) at each subsequent census.
I am looking for any record of Sarah or Richard prior to 1847. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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osprey
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3625
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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not aware of a Llanharran in Monmouthshire, but there is one in Glamorgan
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/GLA/Llanharan/
and a possible family in 1841
Bryn Cae Vach, Llanharran HO107/1416/10 folio 7 pg 8
Nicholas Richards 46 collier
Mary 43
David 20
Catherine 12
/
Nicholas 25 collier
all born in county
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Cornwall: Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Kellett, Tebb
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osprey
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3625
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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just checking Nicholas in later census entries and in 1861, he's in Peterstone super montem, right next to Robert & Sarah Smith with 3 daughters, Mary Ann, Sarah & Hannah. RG9/4074 folio 55 pg 2
Is that your Robert & Sarah?
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Cornwall: Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Kellett, Tebb
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brentor boy
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 37
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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In each census from 1851-81 my Robert and Sarah are shown as living in Pantywaun, Gelligaer, so the record you have found must relate to another couple. However the information you have provided has caused me to consider that I may have the wrong Marriage certificate as the details so closely match the census records you have quoted.
The first traced child of my Robert and Sarah was born in Pantywaun in January 1847 - her mother's maiden name is shown as Richards. It did strike me as a little unusual for the couple to marry in Llanharran in December 1847 and then return to live in Pantywaun, particularly as from census records Llanharran was the birthplace of neither of them, but as Free BMD shows no other Robert Smith/ Sarah Richards marriage in Wales 1843/50, I was left with no other obvious alternative.
It seems I must now consider the possibility that they did not marry. If you are able to suggest any other explanation, please let me know.
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osprey
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3625
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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How is the mother's name given on the birth certificate? Is it Smith formerly Richards? Or is there a late something in there as well?
There's a possible registration
Robert Smith dec qtr 1846 Merthyr Tydfil vol 26 pg 629 with a Sarah Rosser on the same page
not that there's a likely marriage of a Sarah Richards to a Rosser, but a possible family in Bedwelty in 1841
Cwmmaes....(?) Ishlawrcoed HO107/750/6 folio 31 pg 23
David Rosser 55 collier
Eliza 18
Sarah 15
Margaret 12
Ebenezer 9
Louisa 6
all born in county apart from David
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Cornwall: Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Kellett, Tebb
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brentor boy
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 37
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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The parents of Jane, their first(?) born, are shown as Robert Smith and Sarah Smith formerly Richards. Sarah was the informant (with a mark).
It is possible that either Robert or Sarah were in an undissolved marriage at the time of Jane's birth and thus unable to marry but ,as neither of them was more than 21, this seems unlikely. Perhaps I need to obtain the birth certificate of a later child to check on the maiden name Sarah gave at that time.
Census records suggest that Robert was born in Gelligaer circa 1827/8. Their children, as extracted from census records and matched to BMD index, appear to have been:- Jane 1847, Mary Ann 1849, (Morgan 1850?),Jennet 1853, (Gwenllian 1853?), Joseph 1855, Henry 1857, David 1860, Ann 1862, Sarah 1864/5.
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osprey
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3625
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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think that's a good idea just in case. Certainly not much showing up in the mean time. Though I did wonder about this birth record from IGI batch C095781
Robert Smith son of Joseph & Jennette born 26/12/1827 Penuel Particular Baptist, Rhymney Iron Works
Also a brother Henry born 2/11/1825 in the same batch
given that the names are used for their children. Pantywaun had a Baptist Church.
http://www.alangeorge.co.uk/pantywaun.htm
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Cornwall: Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Kellett, Tebb
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brentor boy
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 37
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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The Smith family of Rhymney certainly looks worth a closer look. I shall try and trace them through the census and see where that may (or may not) lead.
Incidentally Robert, who was an iron miner (why am I not surprised?) was also, at one time, licensee of "The Miners' Arms" in Pantywaun. Not sure how that would square if he was a Baptist.
The search goes on. Thanks for suggesting further avenues to explore.
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brentor boy
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 37
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Osprey,
Thought you might be interested to know that I have now received a copy birth certificate of later child of Robert and Sarah Smith. Mother's former name shown as ROSSER! Now for the marriage certifcate which will hopefully put me back on track.
Many thanks for your helpful input. Not too sure how far I would have progressed without it.
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osprey
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3625
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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If the marriage cert shows her father as David, the family from Ishlawrcoed above would look a good match. But I'm struggling to David after that apart from a possible death registration in march qtr 1848.
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Cornwall: Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Kellett, Tebb
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brentor boy
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 37
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I now have the marriage cert.
Married Gelligaer Parish Church, after banns, 9 Nov 1846.
Robert Smith , of full age, s/o George Smith, Miner
Sarah Rosser, of full age, d/o David Rosser, Collier.
Both of Pantywain
Witnesses:- George Jones, Elizabeth Rosser.
All made mark.
It looks like your suggestion of the Sarah/David entry for Ischlawrcoed is correct. I just hope the name of Robert's father is right! I have had two false leads already in trying to sort out this family. Perhaps it's fortunate I am looking for Smith in Wales and not in England.
On the marriage certificate of their daughter Jane, her father's name is shown as Thomas Smith, and then her birth certificate shows her mother's maiden name as Richards.
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osprey
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3625
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Robert seems to be well hidden in 1841. There is a George Smith in Gelligaer, but he's an engineer and I think his marriage is 1827. There's a George Smith who's a miner in Trevethin, Monmouthshire, but no Robert with him.
Perhaps his father died before 1841 and his mother remarried, so he's hidden under another surname.
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Cornwall: Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Kellett, Tebb
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brentor boy
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 37
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thanks Osprey, looks as if I am in for some serious digging. I had so hoped that Robert's father would have been called Joseph!
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