Burials with "no minister" - how does this work?

[AndrewMartin]

I've spotted several instances, for example within the Ely Cemetery book (transcription) that burials appear to have been made with "no minister".

I had previously ignored this note but having found the only mention in church records of the existance of my Gt. Grandmother's older brother who was born prematurely and died at just 4hrs old in September 1894, it notes "no minister present".

How does this work? Presumably there is someone else present who presides over the occasion? 

[Jane Eden]

I've just got back from church and asked my Vicar.

In Victorian times the concept of a baby was different to now. If a stillbirth occured or the baby died very shortly after birth it would not have been considered a baby. It would then not need a minister to be present and would have been buried in unconsecrated ground. The death may still have been recorded.

The baby may have been illegitimate.

Another reason could be suicide as this was not accepted in those times.

These are only 3 possibilities of several and may not apply in these cases. But it is likely to be something along these lines.

Jane

[AndrewMartin]

I've just got back from church and asked my Vicar.

In Victorian times the concept of a baby was different to now. If a stillbirth occured or the baby died very shortly after birth it would not have been considered a baby. It would then not need a minister to be present and would have been buried in unconsecrated ground. The death may still have been recorded.

That's quite harsh but id suspect it to be entirely believeable for this case. The "baby" was premature (i have no idea of by how much) and its lungs had not developed properly (going by the death certificate). He lived for 4hrs before dying and being buried.

[Jane Eden]

I agree it certainly does seem harsh now but medicine is so different now. I don't think it was mean't to be harsh in those days it was dependent on the knowledge they had at the time. Death was viewed quite differently also because it was far more common in everyday life, at all ages, pre modern medicine, immunisation and antibiotics.

I did try to point out that none of the reasons may be the one explaining your case, I was just throwing in a few explanations on church history.

Jane

[AndrewMartin]

hi Jane,

I hope it didnt sound like i was being ungrateful, as i didnt mean to sound like i was there - i was just a bit hurried :S

Thanks for the info. There were certainly a few other "no minister" burials taking place in the Ely Cemetery and your response has given me a few options as to what it could mean.

The existence of the 4hr child has never been referred to by any of the siblings or desendents of the parents (of which i am one). I would even suspect that the siblings never knew their mother had a baby as they would have been very young at the time.

regards
Andrew

[Jane Eden]

None taken. No worries.

Jane