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Topic: Charles Henry Hand - Updated (Read 1189 times)
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AMBLY
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 4584
Falkland Islands "Desire The Right"
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Hi all
Have made the call to the Funeral Directors - very nice & helpful person there - but have to wait for her to get back to me, either this afternoon or tomorrow as she was too busy to look up the file right now! More waiting   - sorry !
Cheers
AMBLY
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AMBLY
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 4584
Falkland Islands "Desire The Right"
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Oh my gosh - lizzielogs 
I didn't update my calls to the funeral director.......so sorry.........and I was so close.....this is what happened:
I called Davis Funeral Services as I posted above.
They did call me back the next day - and said they had absolutely no record of having done the funeral. At that time they kept information on an Index Card system - and had nothing at all in the files. The lady I spoke to had even rung Waikumete Cemetery to get the sextons office to check the burial book. All it had in the columns was the word "Davis" but it was not written under Funeral Director and all in all the entire entry in the book was rather spare on information.
We hummed and hahed and reading the words of the funeral notice, it only said the service was held at Davis' Chapel - it didn't actually infer Davis "handled" the entire death/ funeral process. She then suggested it was possible C LITTLE Funeral directors actually handled the funeral, since they were on the same street as Davis' and were owned by the same group as Davis. Possibly , she said, Littles drove the body to Davis' for the service and then on to the Cemetery.
So I rung Littles. They were supposed to ring me back and have not. One thing and another, busy week - I just let it slip my mind to follow up.
But I will do, tomorrow, as it's possible they do have the file and possible there might be some more persona information on it - unlikley but possible something on it that didn't make it to the death registration record that you now hold.
As penance for my sins - now you have this wonderful confirmation - I live maybe 5 driving minutes from Waikumete. I can't say a day, maybe the weekend - but I can try find the headstone and take a photo for you, if you like?
Cheers
AMBLY
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althea
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1851
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Yes google maps
http://maps.google.com/
enter
poplar road, Silverdale, New Zealand
it will come up
allows you to zoom in and out, its north of Auckland, then you can zoom out and see distance to Whangarei in the north
Bye
Althea
PS the name of the son and dau in law you have from death notice
I can't see a marriage in NZ
When informant says in NZ over 40 yrs, perhaps then ties in that he arrived and married and son born 1930ish
Bye
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Pascoe, Williams, Rowe, Matthews, Eddy: St Just-in-Penwith, St Keverne, Cornwall. Varcoe, Collicoat, Chapman: Roche area,Cornwall Cornes & Graham: Ireland/Shropshire, Barker, Palin: Shropshire McDougall, Morren: Ireland, Earl, Redgen, Steward: Suffolk Info: Thames, New Zealand Genealogy Resources: http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~althea/index.htmlNZSG Mem#18951 CFHS Mem#13723 Info: Breage, Germoe & Godolphin Cornwall : http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~althea/index.html |
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newbe_nz
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2104
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Hi There,
I have been reading this thread with great interest and to see what happens.
There is no marriage up to 1956 for a Charles Henry HAND to an Irene JOHNSON.
I wonder if the married after that year or did in fact not marry in NZ
More food for thought
Newbe
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Purcell, - Australia
Coppell - England 1734 to now, New Zealand - 1853 to now
Buckby - England, Australia, New Zealand - 1630 to now
Smith New Zealand
Parker -England - New Zealand - 1800 to now
Lilley,Lillie, Lilly - England -New Zealand - 1800 to now
Dykins - Wales, England, New Zealand - 1752 to now
Reynolds, England- 1800 to now
Newdick -Norfolk and Suffolk England , Australia, New Zealand - 1700 to now
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Lucy2
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3287
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi again Lizzielogs
I wonder if Charles Henry, had a connection with the Silverdale RSA (Returned Services Assocication) ... and whether in his later years, he might have been a beneficiary of their "welfare services" ?
The Silverdale and Districts RSA appears to be a large organisation (with it's own cenotaph and memorial wall - as well as a museum).
http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/media/photo/silverdale-memorial
Maybe they have a record of C. H. HAND ?
Perhaps you could make an enquiry ? Email addy at the following site.
http://www.silverdalersa.org.nz/
Lu
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althea
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1851
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Lu
what great lateral thinking re the RSA
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Pascoe, Williams, Rowe, Matthews, Eddy: St Just-in-Penwith, St Keverne, Cornwall. Varcoe, Collicoat, Chapman: Roche area,Cornwall Cornes & Graham: Ireland/Shropshire, Barker, Palin: Shropshire McDougall, Morren: Ireland, Earl, Redgen, Steward: Suffolk Info: Thames, New Zealand Genealogy Resources: http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~althea/index.htmlNZSG Mem#18951 CFHS Mem#13723 Info: Breage, Germoe & Godolphin Cornwall : http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~althea/index.html |
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Lucy2
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3287
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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New Zealand "Marriage" and "a Divorce"
As has been said, there is no record (up to 1956) of a NZ marriage for a "Charles" or "Charles Henry HAND". And perhaps it is, that that "divorce" recorded on the death certificate, is simply speculation on the part of the informant ?
I notice at the outset of this thread, that you tell of Charles Henry arriving back in England in the late 50's - early 60's ... and you say "my Gran was very put out". I take it from that, that "Gran" was still at that time, legally married to Charles Henry ??
* Have you checked UK records for a divorce ?
[You'd have to guess though, by Gran's comments (bless her  ) "that he's a bloody long time calling", that perhaps they never did divorce ?]
Lu
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Lucy2
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3287
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Althea
Yep ... I think it's worth a try. 
Not known of course, how long he had resided at Silverdale, but very likely that in his advanced years, he had some contact with some type of "social" organisation ... (RSA or the local bowling club  ).
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Lucy2
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3287
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Lizzielogs
I'll have a look (at library in next couple of days), to see if I can find a birth registration for Charles' NZ-born son.
(Fingers-crossed that it is in the surname of HAND ... and that he might have a second christian name that distinguishes him from others.)
The NZ Death Index doesn't reveal an "Irene HAND" ... there are though a number of "Irene JOHNSON" deaths (but these are a little difficult to follow-up on at this stage).
Will also check a few Auckland electoral rolls to see if I can Charles.
Lu
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Lizzielogs
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 74
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi All Great news Lizzielogs, that you finally have this confirmation from the death certificate.
None of this indicates why he might have been buried in a soldiers grave, I wouldn't have thought serving in the British Army would have entitled him to this but who knows??
Charles Henry would have been entitled to burial in a soldier's plot in New Zealand, but of course, only with some proof of his war service (be that in the British Army or Army of another Commonweath country). The HUGE question is ... WHY was he buried with the regimental number of Henry HAND (the gentleman who was born at Milton, Otago and served in the NZ Army.) ?? It seems to be clearly a case of mistaken identity - HAND, a rather unusual surname ... but at least there is a distinction with the forenames "Charles Henry" and "Henry" !? Some questions perhaps need to be asked of whomever arranged his burial !Surely "alarm bells" rang when the informant to the death was giving the information ? (Or when it was being recorded by the Funeral Director) ?  "Born - Nottingham, England" ! Obviously the NZ Army record of Henry HAND (born Milton, NZ) was not checked ! [Of course this "mistake" is probably not the fault of Charles Henry HAND himself. ] Lu
Hi Lu,
Good question how the mix up has occurred, perhaps it's something Ambly could ask of the funeral directors as it's they who seem to have been the informants and recorded the death??!
It seems a little unusual that a funeral director would be the informant of a death, you would have thought that would have fallen to a family member or the hospital, or do I have the wrong interpretation of 'informant'? This was my basis for thinking that his son (Can I put his name on here as there is a chance he is still living??) and he might have been estranged.
Besos
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Hand, Gower, Turner
Mile End Old Town London, Margate Kent.
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Lizzielogs
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 74
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Yes google maps http://maps.google.com/enter poplar road, Silverdale, New Zealand it will come up allows you to zoom in and out, its north of Auckland, then you can zoom out and see distance to Whangarei in the north Bye Althea PS the name of the son and dau in law you have from death notice I can't see a marriage in NZ When informant says in NZ over 40 yrs, perhaps then ties in that he arrived and married and son born 1930ish Bye
Althea, that was a very bizarre sensation, I looked at the 'street view' and could see the road my Grandfather walked down, for some reason I had to turn the page off it made me feel so weird! Perhaps as an only child (another long story in our family history!!) with my mother my only living relation to see where my Grandfather lived was just overloading my brain!!! 
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Hand, Gower, Turner
Mile End Old Town London, Margate Kent.
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