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Topic: Day trip to Where? (Read 1428 times)
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Hhodgetts
RootsChat Member
Posts: 231
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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That steam engine is still bugging me. Henry7's comment about the splashers is interesting, so I did a bit more digging and came across a postcard with and engine with tanks and splasher on the Brecon line. Does it look more promising and if so what type of engine is it?
Very first image here;
http://www.craigynoscastle.com/walks/history/railway.htm
Philip
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Northumberland; Johnson, Johnston, Dodds, Rutherford, Gray, Kennedy, Wilson, Sanderson, Davidson and other Border Marauders as they are discovered on this journey.
Berkshire; Knight, Bristor, Sharpe, Sharp, Ashley.
Suffolk / Essex; Perce, Pearce, Pearse, Pierce, Hayes.
Midlands; Hodgetts, Parker, Easthope.
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Hhodgetts
RootsChat Member
Posts: 231
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I doubt there would have been different buses for men and for women, I am very sure that family groups and couples would have sat together, it is just that the pose for the image allows the women and children to sit (good manners and etiquette) and the men have grouped up in front, all for the benefit of the photo to be taken.
Philip
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Northumberland; Johnson, Johnston, Dodds, Rutherford, Gray, Kennedy, Wilson, Sanderson, Davidson and other Border Marauders as they are discovered on this journey.
Berkshire; Knight, Bristor, Sharpe, Sharp, Ashley.
Suffolk / Essex; Perce, Pearce, Pearse, Pierce, Hayes.
Midlands; Hodgetts, Parker, Easthope.
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Hhodgetts
RootsChat Member
Posts: 231
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I hope I have cracked it! I think the engine is a GWR 0-4-2 tank as per picture at this link. Common little engines.
See what you think.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Brsince78_side_tank_2575.jpg
Perspective makes it a little difficult in the B & W photo.
Philip
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Northumberland; Johnson, Johnston, Dodds, Rutherford, Gray, Kennedy, Wilson, Sanderson, Davidson and other Border Marauders as they are discovered on this journey.
Berkshire; Knight, Bristor, Sharpe, Sharp, Ashley.
Suffolk / Essex; Perce, Pearce, Pearse, Pierce, Hayes.
Midlands; Hodgetts, Parker, Easthope.
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macintosh
RootsChat Member
Posts: 102
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Could it be that the lapel badges are WW1 wound badges? The chap with the eye patch has one.
James
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mazi
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 54
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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hi trish
we railway enthusiasts have hijacked your topic and cant even identify the engine despite all the clues. ( has to be vacuum fitted,bigsplashers=big wheels =passenger loco, look at the safety valve)
starting from scratch its a very good photo for its time, must have been taken with a large bulky plate camera by a proff photographer, so must be a very special event, could it be intended for a local newspaper?
is the new coach the real interest, must have been one of the first in the valleys but those healthy non windblown trees dont look like the valleys to me,also the shadow of the horn on the coach suggest middayish not an early morning start. more experts needed,perhaps, but we may never know.
mazi
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'Trish'
RootsChat Member
Posts: 226
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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After giving this a great deal of thought, I thought I best put it in writing, not that I am not pleased with what you all have accomplished, and thanks all for all you have done.
However, I am questioning the date of the picture, could it be 1920-1930 as orignally thought, and not 1910 -1920? The reason for my questions:
1. The baby sat on its mothers lap (Jane Dix possibly is the mother?), was suppose to be my mother or her sister, my Aunt, born 1929 & 1924 respectively, if the picture is 1910-1920 then it is neither.
2. My grandfather at the centre left of the photo, with flat cap and pipe with his hands in his pockets, was away fighting in WW1, so would have been away 1914-1921, he was born 1880. Thomas John looks as he is in his early 40's in the picture.
3. My uncles would not appear as late teen, early twenties in the picture as they were born 1910 - 1922. When my mother was born she told that her eldest brother was 21 and married expecting his first child (but was 19 not 21 as orginally thought).
4. My great grandmother Mary Francis 1863/1864 Herefordshire, is also suppose to be in the picture she is the eldest lady behind the lady with the baby, in the middle, leaning close to another lady. She would be in her 40-50's? She looks older?
5. My grandmother Sarah Roberts nee Austin also appears in the picture, she is the lady stood behind the lady with the baby with a light coloured hat, the lady sat next to the lady with the baby is my great aunt Elizabeth Austin, born 1876 bedwelty, who I believe had an illigitimate daughter Phoebe (family legend has it but Elizabeth had a sister called Phoebe born 1881 who married William Webb).
The orginal picture is on thick card and an address on the back 40 Bourneville Road, Blaina, my grandparents lived at 20 & 22 Bourneville Road, orginally called Glanyrafon terrace and my great great Uncle Thomas Austin lived at Glanyrafon Terrace, (but I don't know what number, so could be number 40?) I believe this picture belonged to William Dicks (gentleman stood next to youth leaning on windscreen). A Will Dicks appears on the 1901 Census, 128 Abertillery Road
1901 Census: 128 Abertillery Road, Aberstruth, Blaina, Bedwelty Monmouthshire
George Brown 58 Head Coal Miner hewer b 128 Asteringham, Somerset - Speaks English
Maria Brown 66 Wife b Varteg Monmouthshire - Speaks English & Welsh
Sarah Austin 13 Grandau b Blaina, Monmouthshire, Wales - Speaks English
William Dix 50 Boarder Coal Hewer & Miner b Somerset Frome - Speaks English
William George Dix 7 Grandson b Blaina, Monmouthshire - Speaks English
RG13 Piece 4935 Folio 25 Page 41
Maria is my great x2 grandmother Maria Brown formely Austin nee Pugh born 1832 Varteg. On the census Maria is living with her second husband George Brown and boarders are William Dix and his grandson also William Dix. A William Dix married my Great x2 Aunt Catherine Austin married Dec q 1892 Bedwelty, and who had a son called William (one of twins). Could the Will Dixs age 50 on the census be the same gentleman in the picture?
Hope this is clear, regards Trish
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Fear, Puddy, Bunn, Hemsbury - Wedmore Somerset. Watts - Romsey Hants, Frome Somerset, Warminster Wilts & Wokingham Berkshire. Roberts - Newport, Stone Glos, Austin - Blaina Monmouth.
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mazi
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 54
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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From mazi
Hi Trish have you seen the replies to your post "day trip on the hay-brecon"?
thats been hijacked by us railway buffs also. Its hard to date from a railway point of view but the road coach should be much easier for an expert, which Im not but the wheels should give them a good clue. I have seen a pic of a similar one in use during the general strike 1926 but it could have been a few years old by then. I think 1910 is much too early for that coach and would guess at 1920-1927 about right for your grandad and for will dicks who looks about 80 on the pic. Was it his 80thbirthday trip,only being silly ( i cant spell facetious). Seriously a road transport enthusiast should be able to give an earliest possible date for that vehicle
regards mazi's oh (she has threatened to ban me from her login)
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Hhodgetts
RootsChat Member
Posts: 231
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I do know that this charabanc picture was taken in 1922 dead certain, as the child sitting in the lap of the woman above the hub of the rear wheel is my now 90 year old mother in law who has herself told me the picture was taken before they set off from Bradford for Bridlington. Hopefully clothing and vehicle style will help with your original picture even if it just gives a starting point as later than 1919.
The only other thing I can think of would be to visit the Brecon Library and see if they have newspapers from the 'time' and do the long hard slog of starting at 1918, or post WW1 and go through the papers till you (hopefully) come across information, as I expect it would have been a newsworthy event. If I was anywhere near Brecon I would go do it for you, but I live rather a long way from Brecon. I wonder if there are any local papers that do a local history events page. Our local paper has a 'This time 25 years / 50 / 75 and 100 years ago' often with old photos which is fascinating to read.
I hope others will be able to offer you much better advice than mine. I am still very much a novice at this game.
Philip
PS there is a picture of what I believe to be the same model of charabanc as in your picture here. I just cannot identify the make. Hopefully someone else will be able to help.
http://www.cradleybook.org.uk/?cat=7
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Northumberland; Johnson, Johnston, Dodds, Rutherford, Gray, Kennedy, Wilson, Sanderson, Davidson and other Border Marauders as they are discovered on this journey.
Berkshire; Knight, Bristor, Sharpe, Sharp, Ashley.
Suffolk / Essex; Perce, Pearce, Pearse, Pierce, Hayes.
Midlands; Hodgetts, Parker, Easthope.
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mazi
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 54
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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looks very similar doesn't it.
just noticed both buses have solid tyres, this must make it dateable by an expert. its gone dark since my last post, its not easy typiinngg inn thee daaark 
mazi's OH
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jim1
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 4949
aint life grand
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Just to throw in my twopennuth,I would suggest this was taken early 1920's as there's a absence of the very popular cloche style hats of the late 20's. but there are some hats popular during & after the war.The men's lapel badges are not SWB's (always worn on the righ lapel) as these became obsolete after the war.There were bus companies that advertised day trips with a pickup & return to the station which this probably is.One or two of these chaps look a bit dishevelled so I would say on their way home.
Is the bus a Leyland 32 seater?
jim
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Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke;Dillon;Easthope; Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;kane;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers;Whitworth. Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer Leics.Cooper;Preston Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece. Som.May;Perriman;Cox India Kane;Felton;Cadby London.Haysom;Easthope Lancs.Gay. Worcs.Coley;Sawyer. Census information is Crown copyright,from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/ |
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Hhodgetts
RootsChat Member
Posts: 231
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I too wondered if it was a Leyland vehicle, but the wheels seem to be quite unique and the only vehicles I have been able to find during my searches with wheels of the type shown in the original picture have all been Thorneycroft vehicles. The time scale we are looking at is right on the cusp of changing from solid rubber tyres to pneumatic. The 'steel' wheels seem to be from about 1927 onwards. Car wheels were solid metal in some instances from about 1921, so I assume it might have taken a few years for technology to advance enough to enable such big wheels to be made of steel, however some WW1 Thorneycroft lorries had the 'pepperpot' steel wheels.
Here is a picture of a Thorneycroft vehicle in Haslingden Lancs. I know the bulkhead and windshield are slightly different, but re the wheels, mud guards, running boards and door furniture, I am now pretty much convinced it is a Thorneycroft, perhaps a J type.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_MrEJAK8BzEs/SbpC9LX4NFI/AAAAAAAABgE/30IlKmFR0u4/s1600-h/0201+Cordingleys+-+BBurn+Rd+Nr+Trin+Bapt+(Large).JPG
What does anyone else think? I am just hoping these combined bits of info will enable a more acurate date to be verified for the original picture. A little difficult as some of the Thorneycroft vehicles built 1934 survived until 1959! Though I imagine their coach built bodies would have been somewhat altered and updated over their operational lives, perhaps ending up looking nothing like the original vehicle.
I also found the info here interesting, look at the wheels.
http://www.hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?t=13514
Philip
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Northumberland; Johnson, Johnston, Dodds, Rutherford, Gray, Kennedy, Wilson, Sanderson, Davidson and other Border Marauders as they are discovered on this journey.
Berkshire; Knight, Bristor, Sharpe, Sharp, Ashley.
Suffolk / Essex; Perce, Pearce, Pearse, Pierce, Hayes.
Midlands; Hodgetts, Parker, Easthope.
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mazi
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 54
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Phillip
stunning picture of cordingley's isnt it, I have to agree a Thorneycroft looks
pretty certain to me, chassis line between wheel and mudguard the same on both, probabley bodied by the same coachbuilder.
I'm beginning to lose track of this and its associated thread, inclined to agree its maybe a newspaper photo and wonder if there is much more we can dig out for trish
mazi's oh
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Hhodgetts
RootsChat Member
Posts: 231
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Mazi, I know chasing the locomotive and charabanc seems to take the main subject off topic, but by gathering more information about those things it might well be possible to narrow down the year the image was taken.
Trish has asked many more questions to try and see if the image can be better dated and she has given more information re the ages of her family at the time. I had hoped that looking into more detail about the charabanc would help. Whether or not that has been achieved only time will tell. I was hoping that the steel wheels would be more accurately datable but sadly that has not been the case. I was expecting from my research that the image would have been more likely around 1934, but as I say I have been unable to confirm that as, the steel wheels were already in use for WW1 Thornycroft vehicles. In comparison to today vehicle types were not changed as often as they are now, so the image (besides clothing) could technically have been taken anywhere between 1914 and 1959, though we know it is post WW1 and certainly pre WW2, but when?
I do agree that the Cordingley's charabanc is stunning. I now want to go for a ride on one like it......
Just look at this one
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8615623@N04/2931195025/sizes/o/
Philip
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Northumberland; Johnson, Johnston, Dodds, Rutherford, Gray, Kennedy, Wilson, Sanderson, Davidson and other Border Marauders as they are discovered on this journey.
Berkshire; Knight, Bristor, Sharpe, Sharp, Ashley.
Suffolk / Essex; Perce, Pearce, Pearse, Pierce, Hayes.
Midlands; Hodgetts, Parker, Easthope.
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Pages: 1 2 [3] 4
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bus_to_brid_cropped.jpg