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Topic: My Page family brick wall (Read 411 times)
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yelkcub
RootsChat Member
Posts: 235
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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According to the 1851 census my ancestor HENRY PAGE was born in Charlwood, Surrey between 1784 and 1791 (the census gives his age as 60, though on his death certificate, later in the same year, his age is 'about 66 years')
I've recently bought the West Surrey baptisms CD, which includes Charlwood and other Surrey records not in II. There is no trace of my ancestor. It has been suggested that, since Charlwood is so close to the Sussex border, he may have been baptised there ...
... so my question is, can anyone suggest which parishes are worth searching for Henry Page's birth, and are they available on a CD? If any list member has such a CD, I wonder if they might be kind enough to look for a possible Henry Page baptism. I know that he had three brothers: Thomas (born around 1766), Richard and Charles Robert (no idea about the birth years of these last two.
For any advice I will be most grateful
Ian, in rainy Cornwall
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jann
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 271
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Ian,
Was he married? The location of his marriage would let you know where he was living as a young man and that may be a clue to where he was christened.
What's the source of your information about this brothers? Have you found his brothers in the '41 or '51 censuses? Where were they born?
Jann
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yelkcub
RootsChat Member
Posts: 235
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thanks for your reply Jann. This Henry Page was a complicated man. He married in London in 1826, though his first child was born in 1810 (christened in London). The names of his brothers came to light in a Chancery case of 1861 (ten years after Henry's death) - one of Henry's brothers, Thomas, left a trust for his brothers' children. In Chancery it was alleged that Henry's children were illegitimate and so ineligible to benefit from Thomas's trust. Henry's children could provide no proof of their parents' marriage. Henry and his wife (Jame Godden) must have kept the marriage secret from their children, as to admit the date would have told those of his children before the marriage that they had been born out of wedlock.
I have a good idea of Thomas's DOB as I found his will, and from the will came his address at death: he lived in Coldbath Row, Greenwich. The burial register of St Alfege, Greenwich, gave his age at death, which gives us a DOB - 1766 (give or take a year).
There was a Thomas Page christened at St Alfege in 1766 (parents Thomas and Honor) - though these parents had another son, John, who does not figure in anything I know about the family. I suppose he could have died. There is no St Alfege record of a Henry Page, a Richard Page or a Charles Robert Page. I found a Charles Robert Page in the census, a sawyer born Wilmington, Kent. I investigated him thoroughly and had to eliminate him from the search (he had a brother Thomas born later than the Thomas Page I know to have been Henry's brother).
It's a wall. And it's brick!
Cheers from Cornwall IAN
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lizdb
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9415
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I would guess the nearest Parish Church to Charlwood (other than Charlwood itself) would have been Horley (also Surrey) as the Parish Church there is on the Charlwood side of the town.
Of course, they might not have been christened.
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lizdb
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9415
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Where was Thomas in 1851 then? I guess that was before he died wasnt it?
I cant see a Thomas Page bn 1766 ish ....
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yelkcub
RootsChat Member
Posts: 235
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thanks for mentioning Horley: Horley records (at least some of them) are covered in IGI, I think - including some Pages. Your suggestion that the Page brothers may never have been christened is obviously one I have to bear in mind. Otherwise it is odd that I can't find a single one of them, unless their place of baptism is not in IGI
Thomas Page, Henry's brother, died in 1835 - the burial record adds his address and 'aged 69 years', which is how I come to his approximate DOB. Thomas was described as a wine merchant, and he had for a time been a partner in the famous Gray's Inn Coffee House in Holborn.
Thanks and best wishes IAN
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jann
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 271
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Do I have these conclusions right?
1) Thomas dies in 1835 but it is 26 years after his death before someone decides to dispute the terms of the trust (Chancery case of 1861)
2) Henry and Jane have a common law marriage for 16 years and then have a secret wedding to make it legal.
3) Charles and Richard were not found in any census.
Jann
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yelkcub
RootsChat Member
Posts: 235
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Yes, Jann, that's about it! Thomas's will left most of his property for the use of his brothers (Thomas himself seems to have had no children) - then, after the death of the last of the brothers, the children of the brothers were to benefit from the fund. While the brothers were alive the question of the legitimacy or otherwise of Henry's children was not an issue - only after the death of the last of Thomas's brothers, when it was the brothers' children's time to share the trust did someone bring the Chancery case.
I only know of the Chancery case via an article in The Times - its details are not found in the National Archive (I'm told that sorting Chancery cases is a complex affair for archivists). Therefore, I do not know who brought the case to court - but it must have been one or more of the other claimants. Since the Times report of the 1861 Chancery case states that Richard was childless, the person alleging that Henry's children were illegitimate must have been child or children of Charles Robert Page.
Since Henry died in 1851, and the Chancery case was 1861, it seems that either Charles Robert Page or Richard Page died between those dates ... unless it took a long time to bring the case to court. I have looked carefully at Richard Page deaths and Charles Page deaths between 1851 and 1861, but can find no likely candidates (unless I'm missing something!)
The Times report states that Henry and Jane had been together for forty years: I have seen the baptismal record of their first child, Jane (17 June 1810, St Mary's St Marylebone) 'daughter of Henry Page and Jane his wife', which is exactly the wording quoted in the Times report. I have a xerox copy of the marriage entry from 1826, and have enough examples of Henry Page's signature to be convinced that it was, indeed, my ancestor who married on that day. I can't imagine what reason there might have been why Henry and Jane did not marry sooner, though I suppose there must have been a reason - this was 1810 not 1960!
It's all very odd IAN
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yelkcub
RootsChat Member
Posts: 235
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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The 1841 census shows Henry and Jane living in Bury Street (off Jermyn Street). I know from the death certificate of one of Henry and Jane's sons that it was 20, Bury Street. The census makes Jane's name look like 'Lane'; both H and J are recorded as born out of county; Henry is of independent means.
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