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Author Topic: Convicted by civil powers. For what? Completed  (Read 674 times)
muttly
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Convicted by civil powers. For what? Completed
« on: Tuesday 08 September 09 22:35 UTC (UK) »
Does anyone have any advice on how to find out what offense got my Great grandfather discharged from the army?
His name was Daniel Frith, He was stationed in Aldershot with the Royal Field Artillery.
On his discharge papers it states the discharge was due to his being "convicted by civil powers". I have the date 5th June 1901 but I'm not sure if that was the date of the conviction or the offense.
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Redroger
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Re: Convicted by civil powers. For what?
« Reply #1 on: Friday 11 September 09 17:15 UTC (UK) »
Perhaps it would be worthwhile looking at the local newpapers for the Aldershot area? While the offence could have been committed anywhere I think it most likely that it was committed in that region. I think it likely that he was discharged for two possible reasons: 1) Something likely to have brought the Army into disrepute, or 2) He was unable to carry out his duties due to imprisonment. Have you tried for the service record?
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muttly
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Re: Convicted by civil powers. For what?
« Reply #2 on: Friday 11 September 09 23:00 UTC (UK) »
Thank you for your reply. His discharge papers state the convicted bit. Would he have had other service records? 
The newspaper sounds like a good idea.  So my next question is. Does anyone know what the local paper would be and whether there is online access to the archives.
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PaulineJ
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Re: Convicted by civil powers. For what?
« Reply #3 on: Friday 11 September 09 23:30 UTC (UK) »
Probably won't be online access; there rarely is.
We don't know the date of his discharge to identify what was being published at that time.

Pauline
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Springbok
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Re: Convicted by civil powers. For what?
« Reply #4 on: Friday 11 September 09 23:52 UTC (UK) »
Hi Muttley,

This link is to the Aldershot News, which does seem to have archive material, but only a little on line if you "Google" 

http://www.mediauk.com/newspapers/41428/aldershot-news

Spring
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Redroger
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Re: Convicted by civil powers. For what?
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 13 September 09 15:16 UTC (UK) »
There is the newspaper archive at Colindale, not been but told they have a lot of material.Have youtried Googling his name and the date?
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LemonMallie
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Re: Convicted by civil powers. For what?
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 13 September 09 15:41 UTC (UK) »
I have a similar situation but the details were all included in the 26 page service record downloaded from Ancestry.  My fellow's record included a printed form from the sessional court in Dartford Kent which listed his offence (unlawfully drunk on a highway while in charge of two horses and a van) and his punishment (14 days imprisonment and a fine).  It was also noted on the Regimental Conduct sheet.  But this was not serious enough to have him discharged and in fact he was convicted of drunkenness again a year later but still returned to duty.  He finally scarpered in 1907 and was noted as a deserter.

If you don't have his full service record, it might be worth checking Ancestry or ordering it from the TNA.

Lynwen
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muttly
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Re: Convicted by civil powers. For what?
« Reply #7 on: Monday 14 September 09 13:44 UTC (UK) »
Thank you all for your replies.
I think the information that I have was "gleaned" from his enlistment papers.
Wow, Since Lynwen's ancestor wasn't discharged  now I'm even more intrigued as to what mine did! unfortunately I don't have Ancestry at the moment Do you think it would be acceptable to post a look up request?
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Redroger
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Re: Convicted by civil powers. For what?
« Reply #8 on: Monday 14 September 09 16:16 UTC (UK) »
Go for it!! Nothing ventured etc.etc.
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Ayres Brignell Cornwell Harvey Shipp  Stimpson Stubbings (all Cambs) Baumber Baxter Burton Ethards Stanton (all Lincs) Luffman (all counties)
muttly
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Re: Convicted by civil powers. For what?
« Reply #9 on: Thursday 17 September 09 22:34 UTC (UK) »
Well, I did try the armed forces but since then I managed to get onto ancestry, but I could only get military information from 1914. As I could only use the 30 minutes alloted I wasn't able to get very far. 
Lynwen, or some other kind soul, Could you please explain how I can get to his service record from Ancestry. Thank you.
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LemonMallie
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Re: Convicted by civil powers. For what?
« Reply #10 on: Friday 18 September 09 00:30 UTC (UK) »
I just signed up for a two week trial on Ancestry and I had a quick look but didn't see anything under the Military records for Daniel Frith.  Did he have a second name or is the name commonly mistranscribed?  I generally don't trust Ancestry's transcriptions so if you have any more details, I can search again.  I am not sure how the records are organized because my fellow came up under the Pension records 1914 - 1920 even though he deserted in 1907.

I don't know very much about ordering military records from the National Archives but I believe you have to search yourself or hire a researcher as the files are not indexed by name.  But the experts on the military board here will certainly give you better advice I'm sure.

Lynwen
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North of Watford G
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Re: Convicted by civil powers. For what?
« Reply #11 on: Saturday 19 September 09 14:59 UTC (UK) »
Hi there Muttly,
All the records that survived the Blitz are held by Ancestry, I have had a look and can't find him on the 3 sections that they have.

I have posted the address of the RA records office on your other thread.

Cheers Roger.
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muttly
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Re: Convicted by civil powers. For what?
« Reply #12 on: Monday 21 September 09 13:56 UTC (UK) »
Thanks Roger, I shall contact them to see if I can get any further. I really appreciate you and Lynwen taking time to help me. muttly.
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North of Watford G
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Re: Convicted by civil powers. For what?
« Reply #13 on: Monday 21 September 09 14:35 UTC (UK) »
 Cheesy
Hi there,
Some more info for you from the 1901 census,

Dan Frith, Driver, aged 22, from Lutterworth, Leicestershire, in the 26th Battery RFA, in the Stanhope and Wellington lines, Aldershot.

Cheers Roger.
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Redroger
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Re: Convicted by civil powers. For what?
« Reply #14 on: Monday 21 September 09 14:50 UTC (UK) »
Just a thought, might be worth trying Lutterworth papers, could have done something when home on leave!
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Ayres Brignell Cornwell Harvey Shipp  Stimpson Stubbings (all Cambs) Baumber Baxter Burton Ethards Stanton (all Lincs) Luffman (all counties)
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