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| | | | | |-+  Barbara Jones born Thornley, Durham 1896 *COMPLETED*
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Author Topic: Barbara Jones born Thornley, Durham 1896 *COMPLETED*  (Read 471 times)
irene33
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Re: Barbara Jones born Thornley, Durham 1896
« Reply #15 on: Saturday 12 September 09 20:12 UTC (UK) »

Hi Barbara,

Hope you understood my last piece of "babble".   

A couple of months ago  I ordered the marriage certificate ( John Edward Jones, Wingate)  from England record office, I live in Canada.

When it arrived it showed "Elizabeth Morrison" as the wife.    I was hoping it was an error ONLY in the typed index.

I was under the impression that when a certificate is ordered the informatiion on the parish record is superimposed onto the certificate.

Am I wrong?

Regards..Irene
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Jones - Denbigh
Maddison - Durham
Pearson - Arley & Coventry, Warwickshire
Bangham/Baugham - Worces. & Staffordshire
Gardiner - Cullen, Banff
Jones/Muston/McDermott - Portsmouth, Hants (not related to Jones, Wales)
Ecneps
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Posts: 13323


Rosalie Mathilda Jönsson 1916-1999


Re: Barbara Jones born Thornley, Durham 1896
« Reply #16 on: Saturday 12 September 09 20:19 UTC (UK) »

After I wrote that you should look at the original parish record (kept at Durham records office) I went on to say that it would be worth contacting durhamrecordsonline who have transcribed from the original record and asking them to look again.  They may be able to tell you if a mistake has been made.  Or email the GRO with the same query.

If the parish clerk wrote the name wrongly, there's nothing you can do, I don't think

I think the local register office certificates are copied from the original record, GRO certs from indexes, so they may be different.

Barbara
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`There are two lasting bequests we can give our children -  One is roots - the other is wings`- Hodding Carter

Census and bmd information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk and www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

Lincs & Yorks - SIVILLS PREDGEN    Norfolk - EBBS WHITEROD ZIPFELL       Sweden - JÖNSSON CRONBERG ANDERSSON      Yorks - SPENCE HIDE HIRD      Durham - DALKIN SELBY RENWICK
Ecneps
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Rosalie Mathilda Jönsson 1916-1999


Re: Barbara Jones born Thornley, Durham 1896
« Reply #17 on: Saturday 12 September 09 20:44 UTC (UK) »

Found the topic I've been looking for, very helpful information by Valda on English certificates
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,403526.msg2723836.html#msg2723836
See the section on the GRO index:

Where a marriage took place in a church and the church has deposited its register you can find these registers at the local county record office. When a marriage took place in a church a copy of the church entry was made and deposited with the local registrar. He then made a copy of that certificate and sent it to the GRO with the copies of the certificates made for births and deaths that were registered at the local registry office

So it's no wonder mistakes were made, when copies of copies were made  Undecided
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`There are two lasting bequests we can give our children -  One is roots - the other is wings`- Hodding Carter

Census and bmd information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk and www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

Lincs & Yorks - SIVILLS PREDGEN    Norfolk - EBBS WHITEROD ZIPFELL       Sweden - JÖNSSON CRONBERG ANDERSSON      Yorks - SPENCE HIDE HIRD      Durham - DALKIN SELBY RENWICK
O1dgobbo
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Posts: 863


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio


Re: Barbara Jones born Thornley, Durham 1896
« Reply #18 on: Sunday 13 September 09 20:05 UTC (UK) »

Hi Irene

The GRO record is a third copy of the marriage information, the Durham Registry Office copy is a second copy and the bride's name is shown as Morrison in the Durham index so that is almost certainly the name that they have.  The original church record may show Maddison but I suspect that it also will show Morrison.

Your statement about Barbara's birth certificate
Quote
Barbara Jones on her birth certificate lists

 "The mark of Mary Maddison present at the birth,  Wood Street, Thornley"
suggests that Elizabeth could not write and probably could not read.  consequently if the clergyman officiating at her wedding recorded her name as Morrison she would not know.

All the best

Gobbo
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Fife - Co?per, Dun, Jackson
NE England - Harland, Hasted, Heaviside, Longridge, Thompson
SE England - Drawbridge, Hall, Hayward, Howard, Newell, Seward, Slade, Smith
irene33
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Re: Barbara Jones born Thornley, Durham 1896
« Reply #19 on: Sunday 13 September 09 23:01 UTC (UK) »

Hi Gobbo,

Thanks for the clarification.  What is the original then?.   Where is it kept?.  How do I get to see it?  Sorry for all the questions.

I realize that maybe it may have Morrison on the original but I can try and find it.   One more question, do you know if there are any records of marriage banns for Wingate Church.

I just like to get all my ducks in a row then I know what I am dealing with.  Plus I guess I am getting quite passionate about it.  Especially when I am seeing what I think is my Elizabeth Maddison and her father and mother on trees where they do not belong.....

I had better go before I start ranting again....Irene
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Jones - Denbigh
Maddison - Durham
Pearson - Arley & Coventry, Warwickshire
Bangham/Baugham - Worces. & Staffordshire
Gardiner - Cullen, Banff
Jones/Muston/McDermott - Portsmouth, Hants (not related to Jones, Wales)
O1dgobbo
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Posts: 863


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio


Re: Barbara Jones born Thornley, Durham 1896
« Reply #20 on: Monday 14 September 09 11:16 UTC (UK) »

Hi Irene

If I have followed the posts in this thread correctly the closest to an original entry will be the entry in the church register that Barbara refers to
Marriage:
Wingate Grange   Holy Trinity
4 Dec 1893 John Edward Jones, age 20, son of John Jones married Elizabeth Morrison, age 19, daughter of Mark Morrison

This entry should have been completed and signed at the time of the wedding.  Wingate Grange was in the ancient parish of Kelloe and according to Genuki the church records for Wingate Grange, 1841 to 1989, are held at the Durham Record Office.  Given that you know the date of the marriage and the name of the bridegroom, the Record Office will probably be able to find the record and send you a photocopy for a reasonable charge.

All the best

Gobbo
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Fife - Co?per, Dun, Jackson
NE England - Harland, Hasted, Heaviside, Longridge, Thompson
SE England - Drawbridge, Hall, Hayward, Howard, Newell, Seward, Slade, Smith
irene33
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Posts: 33


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Re: Barbara Jones cont.
« Reply #21 on: Monday 14 September 09 15:38 UTC (UK) »

Hello Gobbo

Just want to thank you for all your assistance and direction.  Plus  to thank everyone else who gave me confidence to know that I am on the right track.  I am putting this subject as completed.

I am sending a e-mail to Durham Records Office.  Keep your fingers crossed.

Best Wishes

Irene

PS - Hopefully I am completing this properly
« Last Edit: Tuesday 15 September 09 00:59 UTC (UK) by irene33 » Logged

Jones - Denbigh
Maddison - Durham
Pearson - Arley & Coventry, Warwickshire
Bangham/Baugham - Worces. & Staffordshire
Gardiner - Cullen, Banff
Jones/Muston/McDermott - Portsmouth, Hants (not related to Jones, Wales)
O1dgobbo
RootsChat Veteran
*****
Posts: 863


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio


Re: Barbara Jones born Thornley, Durham 1896
« Reply #22 on: Monday 14 September 09 18:25 UTC (UK) »

Hi Irene

You might want to leave the topic open until you finally get that marriage information and let us know what you find.

When you want to "complete" this thread go back to your first post and click modify.  Then edit the title to start COMPLETE  Barbara Jones born in .... 

All the best

Gobbo
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Fife - Co?per, Dun, Jackson
NE England - Harland, Hasted, Heaviside, Longridge, Thompson
SE England - Drawbridge, Hall, Hayward, Howard, Newell, Seward, Slade, Smith
irene33
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Posts: 33


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Re: Barbara Jones born Thornley, Durham 1896
« Reply #23 on: Tuesday 15 September 09 01:11 UTC (UK) »

Hi Gobbo

Well I just heard back from Durham Records Office and this is what they said:

I have checked the marriage and banns registers for Wingate, Holy Trinity, for the entries relating to John Edward Jones but regret that in each entry Elizabeth is shown as Morrison rather than Maddison.  She has signed the marriage register with her mark, 'X', alongside the name Elizabeth Morrison which has been entered by the incumbent.

Gobbo,  I don't know where to look anymore.  I know they had several children.   I think about 10,  The ones listed below are just the ones I can give immediate proof other than my grandmother's birth cert. 

Jones    Frances A    Maddison    Easington    10a   941   MARCH qtr 1912
JONES    Benjamin T    Maddison    Easington    10a   963   Dec. Qtr. 1913
Jones    Edward    Maddison    Easington    10a   920   June Qtr. 1916
Jones    Nicholas    Maddison    Easington    10a   839   Sept. Qtr. 1918

Any Ideas??? Huh


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Jones - Denbigh
Maddison - Durham
Pearson - Arley & Coventry, Warwickshire
Bangham/Baugham - Worces. & Staffordshire
Gardiner - Cullen, Banff
Jones/Muston/McDermott - Portsmouth, Hants (not related to Jones, Wales)
O1dgobbo
RootsChat Veteran
*****
Posts: 863


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio


Re: Barbara Jones born Thornley, Durham 1896
« Reply #24 on: Tuesday 15 September 09 09:44 UTC (UK) »

Hi Irene

I think that if there had been another John Edward Jones married to an Elizabeth Morrison somebody would have found some other record such as a census record for this other family. 

If it were my family I would be very confident that the marriage record relates to John Edward Jones and Elizabeth Maddison and that the celebrant misheard or recorded her surname wrongly.  As she probably could not read very well, especially hand-writing, I guess that she was happy to put her mark to the name Morrison and nobody noticed the mistake or if they did felt unwilling to challenge the clergyman.

All the best

Gobbo
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Fife - Co?per, Dun, Jackson
NE England - Harland, Hasted, Heaviside, Longridge, Thompson
SE England - Drawbridge, Hall, Hayward, Howard, Newell, Seward, Slade, Smith
irene33
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Posts: 33


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Re: Barbara Jones born Thornley, Durham 1896
« Reply #25 on: Wednesday 16 September 09 01:05 UTC (UK) »

Hi Gobbo,

Thank you for the encouraging me to go on.  Your words express exactly how I feel.   

So now I am "travelling" to Huddersfield.  I know from information given to me from my father that some of Elizabeth & John's children moved there.  As child I met some of my Gr. Aunts.  I would like to find out what happened to their families.  Maybe they passed on some stories or photo's.

While checking the 1911 census I have found Elizabeth's siblings Francis A. and Sarah Jane and Bartholomew all married and with children of their own.

Take care, until next time (I am sure I will be back)
Irene
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Jones - Denbigh
Maddison - Durham
Pearson - Arley & Coventry, Warwickshire
Bangham/Baugham - Worces. & Staffordshire
Gardiner - Cullen, Banff
Jones/Muston/McDermott - Portsmouth, Hants (not related to Jones, Wales)
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