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Author Topic: Herbert born in Fulham Workhouse  (Read 190 times)
poirot
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Herbert born in Fulham Workhouse
« on: Tuesday 15 September 09 19:19 UTC (UK) »
This is a desperate plea for help.

A friend asked me to help him with his family history and he knows nothing except who his parents were!

I have his father's birth & second marriage certificates and that is the total of my information.

His father Charles Abbott Herbert was born in Fulham Union Workhouse on 25th Sept 1890 to Emily Harriet Herbert. No father given. I have sent for Emily's birth cert.

He married his second wife Sarah Oliver at Fulham Register Office on 30th April 1921. He was 30 years old and a Caterers Porter. Address 298, Lillie Rd, Fulham. He gives his father as Charles Abbott Herbert a Master Builder (deceased). Whether that is fact or fiction I don't know.

I have looked on Ancestry & findmy past and cannot find him on the 1891 or 1901 censuses. I have also looked on the GRO for a possible first marriage and the most likely match is to Louisa F Clarke 1918 Dec qtr. Fulham 1a 734.

Her death is not recorded on FreeBMD.

poirot
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danuslave
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My fashion sense isn't any better now!
Re: Herbert Fulham
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 15 September 09 19:38 UTC (UK) »
Hi poirot

There's Charles Herbert of about the right age living with a Powell family as a nursechild  (see http://rmhh.co.uk/occup/index.html)

1891   Class: RG12; Piece: 1311; Folio 36; Page 66

Linda
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danuslave
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My fashion sense isn't any better now!
Re: Herbert Fulham
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 15 September 09 19:46 UTC (UK) »
Quote
He gives his father as Charles Abbott Herbert

It's possible that his father was a Charles Abbott.  I have a similar situation in my family where an illegitimate child was given her father's surname as her middle name, and then 'made up' his full name on her marriage certificate.

Do you know what happened to Emily Harriet Herbert?  Do you have a date/place of birth for her?

Linda
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poirot
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Re: Herbert Fulham
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 15 September 09 20:04 UTC (UK) »
Hi Linda,

Thank you for your quick response.

Not sure about Charles the nursechild as my Charles was definitely born in Fulham.

I found an Emily H Herbert with her parents George & Susan on the 1881 census. She was born in 1872 in Harlington. I have sent for her birth certificate on the off chance that I might get some more info.

Strange coincidence on the 1901 census, I found an Emily with her husband Charles and there was a lodger with them called Arthur M ABBOTT! Her husband's profession is a Builder's Foreman  and her son gave his supposed father as a Master Builder. I wonder if Emily married Charles after all.
poirot
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brown,henshaw in cheshire,berry,dowding,phillips in gloucester, littlejohn,arkle,nicol in aberdeenshire.
danuslave
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My fashion sense isn't any better now!
Re: Herbert Fulham
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 15 September 09 20:40 UTC (UK) »
Quote
Not sure about Charles the nurse child as my Charles was definite born in Fulham.

You know that, but did the person who filled in the 1891 census?  Cheesy
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danuslave
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My fashion sense isn't any better now!
Re: Herbert Fulham
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 15 September 09 21:08 UTC (UK) »
Quote
I found an Emily H Herbert with her parents George & Susan on the 1881 census. She was born in 1872 in Harlington.

Harlington would have registered in Staines, Middlesex and there is a marriage for

Emily Harriet Herbert & Herbert Tillier

Apr-May-Jun  1899  Staines Vol 3a page 20

Linda

PS What's the reference for Emily & Charles in 1901?
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poirot
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Re: Herbert Fulham
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 16 September 09 19:48 UTC (UK) »
Hi Linda,

Charles & Emily on 1901 census is RG13 Piece 53 Folio 140 Pages 8 & 9.

I think I will discard this as I just found the birth of their son Arthur George Sep qtr.1899 St George H Sq 1a 447 and then a marriage of Charles Herbert to Emily Jane Massey Sep qtr Fulham 1a 527 so can't be the right couple.

I think Charles Abbott Herbert's first marriage could have been to Louisa F Clarke Dec qtr 1918 Fulham 1a 734. Will have to ask my friend if he wants to spend another £7 on the off chance.

I really appreciate you trying to find something out for me.


Cheers,
poirot
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Valda
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Re: Herbert Fulham
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 16 September 09 20:14 UTC (UK) »
Hi

Marriages Jun 1899 
Herbert  Emily Harriet    Staines  3a 20   
Tillier  Herbert     Staines  3a 20


1901 census RG13 1183 folio 27 (Brentford registration district)
22 Worple Road Isleworth Middlesex
Henry Tillier 70 head Married Gardener Domestic Chertsey Surrey
Ann Tillier 56 Wife Married  Monthly Nurse Chertsey Surrey
Herbert Tillier 26 Son Widower Slater? Twickenham Middlesex

Deaths Mar 1900   
Tillier  Emily Harriot  27  Brentford  3a 60


Regards

Valda
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Valda
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Re: Herbert Fulham
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 16 September 09 20:50 UTC (UK) »
Hi

Marriages Dec 1918   
CLARKE  Louisa F  Herbert  Fulham  1a 734   
Herbert  Charles A  Clarke  Fulham  1a 734   

Deaths Mar 1920   
HERBERT  Louise F  28  Willesden  3a 303

Have you found Charles on the 1911 census?


Regards

Valda
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poirot
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Re: Herbert Fulham
« Reply #9 on: Wednesday 16 September 09 21:00 UTC (UK) »
Hi,

This is getting very interesting. Strong possibility that Emily Harriet went on to marry.

I don't have a 1911 voucher but found Charles Abbott Herbert on the free look-up and he was in the military born 1888 aged 23. It says overseas military. This would tie up with what his son told me that his father lied about his age so that he could join up. He was in the 26th Brigade Royal Field Artillery.

Thank you both for your help.

poirot
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brown,henshaw in cheshire,berry,dowding,phillips in gloucester, littlejohn,arkle,nicol in aberdeenshire.
Valda
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Re: Herbert Fulham
« Reply #10 on: Wednesday 16 September 09 21:19 UTC (UK) »
Hi

It might be worth looking at the 1911 census to see what Charles' birthplace was because it doesn't appear to be Fulham.

Though many soldiers' First World War army papers were destroyed in a fire during the Second World War pre First World War army papers do survive and are held at The National Archives and may give a next of kin.

I wouldn't necessarily dismiss Charles Herbert the nurse child on the 1891 census. His place of birth will have been given by the Powells as his foster parents. They may not have actually known for sure where Charles was born.

If Charles was placed into the poor law system after his birth (he wasn't with his mother or his maternal grandparents on the 1891 census) then Fulham poor law records will give more information on him.


Regards


Valda
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