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Topic: Two Elizabeth Lloyds? - compare signatures (Read 290 times)
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rjknott
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1783
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The 1841 census has:
HO107/709 book 4 folio 27
Kingsland Road, Hackney/Shoreditch
Elizabeth Lloyd 40 Chandler Y
Susannah Lloyd 12 Y
Ann Lloyd 8 Y
George Lloyd 4 Y
Elizabeth Lloyd 1 Y
A couple of doors down the road is:
William Lloyd 30 Hatter Y ('my' William Lloyd was b1800)
William Lloyd 15 Y
Registers reveal the following children of William (hatter) and Elizabeth Lloyd:
Susannah Mary Lloyd b 1828
Sarah Ann Lloyd b 1831
George Lloyd b 1835
Elizabeth Lloyd b 1840
It would appear that the enumerator has got William's age wrong (although I haven't found William Jr's baptism, so they may be unconnected), but the problem is this entry in the marriage registers:
16 Nov 1834 St James, Clerkenwell
William Lloyd, bachelor
Elizabeth Northover, spinster
The most obvious answer is that the 'bachelor' is wrong and William married two wives called Elizabeth (there is a possible death). Is there another explanation?
Richard
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« Last Edit: Friday 18 September 09 16:37 UTC (UK) by rjknott »
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Knott,Boutell,Warman,Winder,Webster,Uings,Evans,Drage
Pike,Pike,Watson,Pratt,Homewood,Stephenson,Brown,Pattison
Holmes,Tomlinson,Moorby,Cardus,Gill,Lambert,Binns,Emmott
Fenning,Pudney,Wilson,Walker,Hine,Treeby,Knox,Butler
Jack,Carswell,Gardiner,Alexander,Gibb,Watson,Naismith,Telfer
Gray,Inglis,Gibb,Watson,Taylor,Taylor,Gaff,Henderson
Gayford,Clarke,Palmer,Jessup,Smart,Hutson,Lloyd,Northover
Ridley,Lee,Bird,Mingings,Moore,Colthart,Lawson,Hind
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Valda
Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9698
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Hi
Have you obtained the birth certificate of the youngest child to confirm her mother's maiden name was Northover?
Regards
Valda
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rjknott
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1783
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Indeed I have. I should have put that in the posting.
William (b1800 Dunmow, Essex) and Elizabeth (b1799 Shoreditch) nearly made it to their Golden Wedding despite marrying fairly late).
Richard
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Knott,Boutell,Warman,Winder,Webster,Uings,Evans,Drage
Pike,Pike,Watson,Pratt,Homewood,Stephenson,Brown,Pattison
Holmes,Tomlinson,Moorby,Cardus,Gill,Lambert,Binns,Emmott
Fenning,Pudney,Wilson,Walker,Hine,Treeby,Knox,Butler
Jack,Carswell,Gardiner,Alexander,Gibb,Watson,Naismith,Telfer
Gray,Inglis,Gibb,Watson,Taylor,Taylor,Gaff,Henderson
Gayford,Clarke,Palmer,Jessup,Smart,Hutson,Lloyd,Northover
Ridley,Lee,Bird,Mingings,Moore,Colthart,Lawson,Hind
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rjknott
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1783
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Yes, I know the ages are rounded down in 1841; my comment referred to the fact that William was actually over 40, so 30 seemed quite a long way out (although I have seen worse).
And while I accept that William and Elizabeth could have had children before getting married it's unusual for them to have been entered as man and wife in the baptismal records; normally the mother is entered under her maiden name and the father not mentioned at all.
That said, your scenario is one I have considered, although I thought the possibility of 'bachelor' being wrong as a possibility.
Richard
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Logged
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Knott,Boutell,Warman,Winder,Webster,Uings,Evans,Drage
Pike,Pike,Watson,Pratt,Homewood,Stephenson,Brown,Pattison
Holmes,Tomlinson,Moorby,Cardus,Gill,Lambert,Binns,Emmott
Fenning,Pudney,Wilson,Walker,Hine,Treeby,Knox,Butler
Jack,Carswell,Gardiner,Alexander,Gibb,Watson,Naismith,Telfer
Gray,Inglis,Gibb,Watson,Taylor,Taylor,Gaff,Henderson
Gayford,Clarke,Palmer,Jessup,Smart,Hutson,Lloyd,Northover
Ridley,Lee,Bird,Mingings,Moore,Colthart,Lawson,Hind
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Valda
Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9698
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Hi
Were the children baptised in the same church the marriage took place in, or at least the children either side of the marriage?
Regards
Valda
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nigelp
RootsChat Member
Posts: 211
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Hi Richard,
Do you know whether the marriage of William Lloyd to Elizabeth Northover has any relevance?
There is a marriage of a William Lloyd to an Elizabeth Day in St James, Clerkenwell in 1824. This appears more appropriate to the dates for the baptism entries and the entries for the family in the 1841, 1851 and 1861 Censuses. There is an Elizabeth Day, daughter of Robert, baptised at St John, Hackney on 27 April 1800.
William could perhaps first have married Elizabeth Day and then Elizabeth Northover.
Nigel
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Alcock (Ashill), Barber (Chilcompton), Breeze (Ovington), Carey (Salisbury and Warminster), Collacott (Combe Martin and Shebbear), Creamer (North Elmham), Goss (Bristol and Combe Martin), Musselwhite (Britford and Downton), Sparkes (North Elmham), Thorogood (Little Hallingbury), Turner (Codford, Salisbury and Warminster), Wakefield (Briston and Hindolveston)
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rjknott
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1783
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Valda: Susannah was baptised at Batholomew the Great, but the other three were at St Leonard's Shoreditch (so either side of the 1834 marriage).
Nigel: thank you for the Lloyd/Day marriage. Elizabeth's birth certificate in 1840 names her mother as Northover (see posts 2/3 above). Yes, I am exploring the possibility that William married two Elizabeths (see post 1) and your find looks important - I'm not sure how I missed it.
The following sequence now looks possible:
1824 Marriage at St James, Clerkenwell
1827/1831 Baptisms of children
1832 Elizabeth Lloyd, age 33, buried at St James, Clerkenwell
1834 Marriage at St James, Clerkenwell
1836/1840 Baptisms of children
The less good news is that William's signatures at each wedding are attached and don't seem to support the case particularly strongly, although there are similarities.
Richard
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 William1824.jpg (5.27 KB, 158x59 - viewed 60 times.)
William1834.jpg (8.06 KB, 218x64 - viewed 61 times.)
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« Last Edit: Friday 18 September 09 19:52 UTC (UK) by rjknott »
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Logged
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Knott,Boutell,Warman,Winder,Webster,Uings,Evans,Drage
Pike,Pike,Watson,Pratt,Homewood,Stephenson,Brown,Pattison
Holmes,Tomlinson,Moorby,Cardus,Gill,Lambert,Binns,Emmott
Fenning,Pudney,Wilson,Walker,Hine,Treeby,Knox,Butler
Jack,Carswell,Gardiner,Alexander,Gibb,Watson,Naismith,Telfer
Gray,Inglis,Gibb,Watson,Taylor,Taylor,Gaff,Henderson
Gayford,Clarke,Palmer,Jessup,Smart,Hutson,Lloyd,Northover
Ridley,Lee,Bird,Mingings,Moore,Colthart,Lawson,Hind
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rjknott
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1783
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William's signature in 1861 on his daughter's marriage certificates may help.
(Unfortunately he didn't sign when any of his other children married).
Richard
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Knott,Boutell,Warman,Winder,Webster,Uings,Evans,Drage
Pike,Pike,Watson,Pratt,Homewood,Stephenson,Brown,Pattison
Holmes,Tomlinson,Moorby,Cardus,Gill,Lambert,Binns,Emmott
Fenning,Pudney,Wilson,Walker,Hine,Treeby,Knox,Butler
Jack,Carswell,Gardiner,Alexander,Gibb,Watson,Naismith,Telfer
Gray,Inglis,Gibb,Watson,Taylor,Taylor,Gaff,Henderson
Gayford,Clarke,Palmer,Jessup,Smart,Hutson,Lloyd,Northover
Ridley,Lee,Bird,Mingings,Moore,Colthart,Lawson,Hind
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