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Topic: Stumped in Greater Houghton/Wadsworth-Wordsworth (Read 710 times)
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Samueller
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 61
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Gerry, you wrote that you were seeking information about earlier generations of the WORDSWORTH family. There is plenty of data to help you, both in print and on the web.
The earliest records of the name in Penistone, according to David Hey, in his 'A History of Penistone and District,' are Nicholas de WORDULWORTH in 1408 and William WORDELSWORTH in 1441.
Rev J Hunter in 'South Yorkshire; the History and Topography of the Deanery of Doncaster,' 1831, refers to a deed of 'the first year of Queen Mary' [1662?] mentioning Robert WORDSWORTH of Halifax, gent, and his sons John, George and Gregory, who granted to Michael WENTWORTH the profits [from cloth manufacture] from no fewer thn 40 towns and villages in Yorkshire.
There is an MI from Penistone churchyard of
John WORDSWORTH of Schole Hill who died 1732 @ 58
Wife Dian [sic] d 1755 @ 77
Phineas WORDSWORTH of Penistone d 1776 @ 66
and other children, but no dates: Ambrose [1], Gregory, Ambrose [2] and Margaret.
Unfortunately the full transcript is currently unavailable for research at Penistone library.
Sam
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Samueller
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 61
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thanks for putting me right, Redroger. I must admit to being surprised at the date given on GENUKI website under 'Queens' for Mary Tudor. I should have clicked on their following list of 'Monarchs' which would have shown 1553.
Sam.
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OhBaldOne
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 28
Squinty Pup, Molly Bloom. Yes, I said, yes…
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Thanks, Gents…I have a document put out by Edwin Bedford on the "Family of Wordsworth" - mostly an attempt to give some "street cred" to Wordsworth the Poet and his forbears…apparently, some of the connections are dubious, or at least unattributed in a verifiable manner - but it still has a lot of data to sort through and there are branches that one can glean considerable names and dates from. This document stays mostly in the Peniston(e) area and links the Poet to Richard Wordsworth of Water Hall circa 1379, married to Alice…thence to Nicholas de Wordysworth of Peniston, circa 1392, who is married to Elizabeth Proctor, daughter of William of the same name from Peniston…and then the charts branch out from there, etc etc. There is a forward that has a lot of records of "members of the family of Wordsworth" name, as well as the Penistone Parrish Records of 1644 to 1805…The difficulty with this document is that it is comprised primarily of lists and one really has to extract names and dates and then try and make connections - with the help (sic) of other similar records. Needless to say, it can be irksome and a lot of grunt work…but no one ever said it was going to be easy! The David Hey missive would be of interest…as well as the Rev. hunter tome. Any ideas on how one can obtain a copy would be righteous! I can scan this Bedford doc and send copies out in PDF format if so desired. I still have a stack of information to sort through that I got from a Family History researcher a few years back - now that Bombergirl has given me some crucial info, I may be able to make further headway from this stuff. Many thanks to all and let me know about interest in the Poet's files.
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Wadsworth, Wordsworth - Middlesex/London, St. Georges in the East;
Kip/Kipp - New Amsterdam, NY; Cuer - Unknown; Ferguson/Fergusson; Rogers
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OhBaldOne
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 28
Squinty Pup, Molly Bloom. Yes, I said, yes…
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Redroger: 10-4 on the Bedford booklet - I will have to scan each section of the pages - only because the printing is not the best - but I can do a fairly high resolution scan that will make it easier to read - hopefully!
I did check out the Hunter tome online and it appears to be available from 44quid to 145$, depending on the source and origin of mailing, etc.
In the meantime, I'll get the scanning going and see how a page or two turns out and reformat to PDF status. I assume that if I attach it to this email window in Rootschat others can download it as well…nothing like sharing the information. Who knows what someone else may come up with!
Regards,
Gerry
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Wadsworth, Wordsworth - Middlesex/London, St. Georges in the East;
Kip/Kipp - New Amsterdam, NY; Cuer - Unknown; Ferguson/Fergusson; Rogers
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Ruth
RootsChat Member
Posts: 108
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Hi
I'm a descendant of the Wordsworth branch under discussion so took a look at the tree you posted. It's beautifully laid out! I was very impressed.
However, I'm afraid I believe there's an error in it which means you're chasing the wrong ancestors. It concerns John, the son of James Wordsworth & Elizabeth Wigfield. It appears he was a different person from the John Wadsworth who emigrated to the US.
I have John in my tree, the brother of my ancestor George. As you state, he was baptised on 13 Jun 1824 at Hoyland Nether in Yorkshire (IGI). However, he married Harriet Sampson in 1844 in the Goole registration district of Yorkshire (FreeBMD) and went on to have at least 11 children (Sampson, John William, Harriet, Elizabeth, Aaron, Hannah, Mark, Sarah, Amelia Negget, Emily and Albert) in Hoyland Nether before dying in 1888 in the Barnsley registration district of Yorkshire (FreeBMD). I have been in touch with descendants of his on Genesreunited.co.uk.
You state that your John married Harriet Morton. There is a possible marriage for John Wadsworth and Harriot Morton on FreeBMD in the September quarter of 1840 in Sheffield registration district (vol.22 p.463). You would have to order the marriage certificate for John from www.gro.gov.uk to be sure. That would also give you this John's father's name and occuption.
Looking for this couple in the census turns up the following probable matches:
1841 (HO 107/1335/9 f.9 p.11)
54 Hoyle Street Sheffield [Yorkshire]
John Wadsworth, 22, Joiner, N [i.e. not born in Yorkshire]
Harriot Wadsworth, 22, Y
1851 (HO 107/2122 f. p.11)
Bridge Street, Worksop [Nottinghamshire]
John Wadsworth, Lodger, Mar, 32, Carpenter, [birthplace:] Middlesex St Georges in the East
1851 (HO 107/2148 f.101 p.19)
West Handley, Staveley [Derbyshire]
Harriott Wadsworth, Head, Mar, 32, Coal Miners Wife, Sheffield York[shir]e
Elizabeth Wadsworth, dau, 8, Scholar, Hoyland York[shir]e
Alfred Wadsworth, son, 6, Scholar, Hoyland York[shir]e
John Wadsworth, son, 4, Scholar, Sheffield York[shir]e
Frank Wadsworth, son, 3, Scholar, Sheffield York[shir]e
Robert Wadsworth, son, 5m, Staveley Derby[shir]e
Perhaps John had moved away from home temporarily to enable him to pursue his trade as a carpenter rather than have to be a coal miner in Staveley.
John' occupation as a joiner/carpenter is reinforced by the US census returns which show him as:
1860 US Census - house carpenter
1870 US Census - farmer & joiner
1880 US Census - carpenter
So I suggest you may have to look to London/Middlesex for John's ancestry. Sorry to undermine your beautiful chart.
Regards
Ruth
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www.historyscape.org.ukInterests include: LANSDELL in Kent & Sussex; WELLER in Kent; SELMAN in Yorkshire; BROYD in Essex/Cambridgeshire; KETTERIDGE in Essex/Cambridgeshire
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OhBaldOne
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 28
Squinty Pup, Molly Bloom. Yes, I said, yes…
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Ruth: I think we corresponded back in March 2002 by email - but you had trouble getting your email to send out and ended up sending me info by post. If you'd like to try again, send email to gawadsworth@earthlink.net…we can talk about research terms and exchange some more information. I'd love to have your ancestor George's data to plug into the chart, as well as John (son of James and Harriet) and his ancestors data to correct the chart - if you'd like to send it to me.
Thanks for your kind words on the chart - is is rather impressive…but I guess I must ruefully go back to square two! 
"A Spanner in the Works" is what I ought to title my Rootschat requests!
I fear you are right about my John. I have all the info correct re James and Elizabeth Wigfield - City of SheffieldArchivist sent me this waaay back in 1979! All the childrens names and dates are correct - the problem lies (as you pointed out) is that my John was born in 1819…I have his transcript from the Register of Death from the State of New York. And more importantly…the record states that my John's father was also named John! I had missed this and mistakenly tied him into the James and Elizabeth Wigfield family…Arrgghh!
My John died Jan 11, 1892 at age 73; was therefore born in 1819; he was a carpenter by occupation, his birthplace was Hoyland (by family records). Family story has it he married Harriet Morton in Hoyland, Yks, lived in Rotherham near Sheffield, and emigrated to the US in 1857. They came over by ship and landed at Castle Garden (Ellis Island) and waited there for 6 days. John and Harriet's grandson Walter Alfred, "said that his Uncle John (John and Harriet's son John) told him they were waiting for John (Uncle John's father) to come for them. He had come over ahead of the family and joined friends in Houlton, Maine, where he was a carpenter and cabinet maker. (refer to my charrt to avoid confusion!)
So it looks like I'm back to a full square - although I feel (rather than think) that there could possibly be just a vertical shift somewhere in the chart and we'll be back in business. At least I can hope that!!
Your census info appears to be right on - John, 22 yrs old in 1841 puts his birth at 1819. Spot on. But the "not born in Yorkshire" goes against family oral records…not that they are correct, as we well know.
Don't know where 54 Hoyle Street is in relation to Rotherham, but I'll do a google map search and see what turns up.
The second listing that has John's birthplace as Middlesex, St. Georges in the East - doesn't fit family history, but could be correct. He may have buggered off to Worksop in Nottinghamshire to do some itinerant carpentry work to raise a few quid…a speculation…
The third listing is spot on - as far as his wife and children are concerned. Robert, the 5 month old son, is my Great grandfather. We just assumed he was born in Hoyland like his brother (George) Alfred. Elizabeth, John and Frank are also on target. Frank ran away from the family when they were still in Maine in the 1860's to fight in the Civil War. Because of his age (not yet 16 yrs old), he was accepted as a drummer boy in the "Army of the Rebellion" (the Southern Army under Robert E. Lee). He lost his right arm in the Battle of the Wilderness.
The info on John's occupation is also correct.
Please don't apologize for "undermining the chart"…(ouch, ouch)…it just becomes a new mystery to solve. And what with all the familial names and repetition of the same, I doubt that I'm too far off the chart and will hopefully plug into it at just another name and space!
Who knows, my John (and Harriet Morton) could be the son of John - John being the brother of James and Elizabeth…
Wouldn't that simplify things!
If you have some thoughts on this, email me and/or respond in kind!
Best regards and thanks for clearing up yet another mystery!
Gerry
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Wadsworth, Wordsworth - Middlesex/London, St. Georges in the East;
Kip/Kipp - New Amsterdam, NY; Cuer - Unknown; Ferguson/Fergusson; Rogers
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