|
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 7
|
 |
|
Author
|
Topic: COMPLETED WITH THANKS Keppel’s Head at Portsea in the 1830’s and 1840’s. (Read 1141 times)
|
Just Moi
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1604
Just Moi at 29 Days
|
Keppel's Head
In January 1846 my great great grandfather, John LEDICOTT died, his hattery business was next door to the Keppel's Head on the Common Hard.
From the London Gazette I can see that the disputes over his estate stretched across many decades, however, I am interested in the Keppels Head operators around that time – That hotel was operated by an Elizabeth HARRISON, it seems from the 1841 census that she was a widow, and from an 1830’s electors list she may have operated it for some years.
My interest in this thread, well it's in trying to find a link between that Elizabeth Harrison and an Edward Temple Harrison, born 1825 in Thanet, Kent to John Harrison and his second wife, Susannah Bowles Temple.
That son, - Edward Temple Harrison (1825-1875) married one of John Ledicott’s daughters -Keziah Ledicott 1823-1904 - in 1849 in London. I have good records for Edward and Keziah from their 1849 marriage to their NSW deaths.
I'm fascinated with the apparent connection between that neighbour, Elizabeth Harrison, conducting the hotel, Keppel’s Head at 23 The Common Hard, and her next door neighbour -John Ledicott as his address on many of the records I do have is shown as 25 The Common Hard. I have not been able to trace back past John Harrison on the Harrison line, and so I am hoping to find a “backdoor” via the widow (Mrs) Elizabeth Harrison via her husband's forebears.
Any suggestions please – As I am in Australia I cannot get to look up UK archives in person, but I do have online access to various commercial sites.
Many thanks for reading through this long posting.
Cheers,
JM
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Just Moi
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1604
Just Moi at 29 Days
|
Bit More,
This should be the reference for the Census : HANTS, HO 107/415/3 Portsea, and I had a thread on the Kent board last year. I will find that thread and edit this post with that link.
EDIT TO ADD the thread re John Harrison (father in law of Keziah Ledicott)
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,347488.0.html
Cheers, JM
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Tom Piper
RootsChat Member
Posts: 249
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
|
Are you aware of the number of properties he owned at the time of his death and the means that were taken to sell them, including "number 25 common hard Portsea, fronting the pier and near the entrance to her Majesty's dockyard in the occupation of Mr. Moses, outfitter with two messuages or tenements in the rear and back, entrance from Havant street"
Tom
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Tom Piper
RootsChat Member
Posts: 249
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
|
No doubt you aware of this advert in newspaper, but in case you aren't:
KEPPEL’S HEAD INN, PORTSEA
NOTICE
All persons indebted to the Estate of Elizabeth HARRISON, late of the Keppel’s Head Inn, Common Hard, Portsea, Hants, widow, deceased, are requested to pay their respective Debts to Eliza, the wife of Charles Grove, Esq., Waterlooville, near Purbrook, near Purbrook, Hants, or to Mr. J. F. Whitebread, Accountant, 11 Chapel-row, Portsea, the executors, within one month from the date thereof, otherwise the Accounts will be placed in the hands of solicitors to enforce payment of same.
And all persons to whom the said Elizabeth Harrison stood indebted at the time of her decease, are requested to send their accounts to the said Eliza Grove or J. F.Whitebread, forthwith, that the same may be examined. And all officers and other persons having any packages or effects under the care of the said Elizabeth Harrison, deceased, are requested to send particulars thereof to the said executors, and to remove the same forthwith.
By order of the Executors, Nance and Hellyer, solicitors, Portsmouth & Portsea. 1843 July 5th.
Tom
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Just Moi
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1604
Just Moi at 29 Days
|
Hi there,
Many thanks for your replies.
Re the notice in the papers about Elizabeth Harrison, widow, deceased..... I have not ever seen that despite much searching.... Do you know the details of her marriage at all please?
Re John Ledicott's estate, yes I knew his details, I have copy of his will, and umm, many notices from the London Gazette ... his estate was in dispute for decades .... there's some notices appearing even in 1920's and he died in 1846....
I'll see if I can figure out the possible certificate for Elizabeth Harrison's death and post again shortly.
Again, many thanks .... do you know which newspaper that notice was in please.
Cheers,
JM
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Just Moi
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1604
Just Moi at 29 Days
|
Bit More,
There's several deaths that could be for Elizabeth Harrison ....
Eliza at Alverstoke Vol 7 pg 13 in 3rd qtr 1842; Elizabeth Matilda at Southampton Vol 7 pg 126 in 2nd qtr 1843 .... there's others too... so I will try to figure out who was the Eliza Grove, wife of Charles .... as mentioned in the newspaper cutting that Tom has posted.
Cheers,
JM
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Just Moi
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1604
Just Moi at 29 Days
|
Bit More,
I think that this Eliza and Charles Grove in 1851 were farming at Horndean in Harts? If so, then she was born abt 1811 at Portsmouth.... Perhaps she was a daughter of Elizabeth Harrison of Keppel's Head ....
Cheers,
JM
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Just Moi
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1604
Just Moi at 29 Days
|
Bit More, 1841 !
Remember that I'm in NSW Australia, so I don't have a good grasp of the geography of Hants, but perhaps Eliza and Charles Grove were recorded as GROVES in 1841 and were at Horndean, Catherington, Waterloo .. no children for them 
Still looking,
JM
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Just Moi
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1604
Just Moi at 29 Days
|
THANK YOU, thank you...
I have just downloaded from A2A's online Wills, the will of Elizabeth Harrison, widow of Portsea, and its a tad complicated, but I can clearly see mention of her "daughter in law, Eliza, wife of Charles Grove" and also mention of Charles WEBB ... umm, I recognise that name, for he was the brother in law of Keziah LEDICOTT and he was witness at her marriage to Edward Temple HARRISON!
I will try to transcribe the will and post it here, could be several days to get through it.
Many Many Many thanks - I will send PM full of thanks too... to Tom Piper
THANK YOU TOM PIPER.
RChat is the site to find the clues to find your forebears. - I realise that I won't find the clue in this will as to who was my John Harrison (my Edward's Dad) but I can clearly see that the neighbours at 23 (HARRISON) and 25 (LEDICOTT) The Common Hard knew and were friends with each other in the late 1830's and early 1840's -
One more brick DOWN !
JM
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Just Moi
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1604
Just Moi at 29 Days
|
Bits and Pieces from the Will - in anticipation of RChatters following up on these clues please
... I wish to be buried at Kingston Church... Portsea in grave of my LATE husband .... and ...headstone of our grave .... repaired ....and my name and dates of my birth and death inscribed ....
Alas she did NOT mention her late husband's name....
But she does mention all the children of Charles Webb ... - they were the nieces and nephews of my Great Gran !
I will wait until I have calmed down before I try to figure out the stylised writing. But when I do, I will put my transcription of the will here.
Cheers, JM
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Tom Piper
RootsChat Member
Posts: 249
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
|
That newspaper:
Hampshire Telegraph and Sussex Chronicle Monday, July 10, 1843
Tom
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Tom Piper
RootsChat Member
Posts: 249
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
|
I take it that you know when and where John Ledicott's wife, Mary Ann died don't you?
This is the announcement in the same newspaper:
Hampshire Telegraph and Sussex Chronicle Saturday, November 29, 1851
Ledicott, on the 28th instant, at her residence, Nelson Square, London, Mary Anne, widow of the late John Ledicott Esq., of Portsea.
Tom
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Tom Piper
RootsChat Member
Posts: 249
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
|
How about this?
Hampshire Telegraph and Sussex Chronicle Monday, September 22, 1834
Married yesterday at St Mary’s Buckland, by the Rev. J. V. Stewart, Charles Grove, Esq., son of Rev. Thomas Grove, Rector of Mavesyn, Ridware, Staffordshire, to Eliza, only daughter of the late Mr. John Harrison, of Portsea.
Genuki:
Church History
"The Parish Church stands on the north bank of the Trent. It is dedicated to St Nicholas, and was rebuilt in 1782, except the tower and north aisle, part of the old stones being used in the walls and faced with brick. The rectory is in the alternate patronage of HM Chadwick and JN Lane, Esqrs, and incumbency of the Rev Thomas Grove, MA, who has held the living for 50 years, and is now assisted by the Rev John Underwood, BD."
[From History, Gazetteer and Directory of Staffordshire, William White, Sheffield, 1851]
Tom
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Just Moi
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1604
Just Moi at 29 Days
|
Bit More, from the Will, drawn up in 1841....
Remembering she was the publican at the Keppel's Head, in the will she leaves the contents of various rooms (by room number and location) to various members of Charles Webb's family. She was quite specific, and stated that there was to be NO PUBLIC SALE, so basically I have a full stocktake and description - an "audit" of the Keppel's Head hotel's rooms - down to the pillow cases and right up to the silverware .... and "who got what"... and what would happen if anyone disputed the provisions..... (Eliza Grove had final decision if that happened)...
Charles Webb and his wife were witnesses to MY Keziah Ledicott's marriage in London in 1849 to Edward Temple Harrison, but the will does not indicate that Elizabeth Harrison knew of him. Elizabeth Harrison's will makes NO mention of any of her own children, perhaps she had none. She does provide for her daughter in law, Eliza, wife of Charles Grove - Eliza gets the Hotel Bar's takings, stock, and monies owed to Elizabeth Harrison etc. Perhaps Eliza was a daughter of Elizabeth's late husband .... I'm not sure what "daughter in law" meant in 1840's in England.
Elizabeth Harrison's will also provides for her friend Mary and servant Sarah. (both on the 1841 census). There's even provision for Elizabeth Harrison's cousin ... hard to read but perhaps "Roberta, wife of Sid HOYLE" - also no address for that cousin.. and that could well be wrong for I have NOT found anyone on 1841 census who could be likely candidates...
More to come, of course I've still got questions, !
Cheers, JM
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Just Moi
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1604
Just Moi at 29 Days
|
Ah Tom,
I had not found that marriage of Eliza to Charles GROVE, noticing her Dad's name was JOHN HARRISON....
I know that MY John Harrison was married twice... My Edward Temple Harrison was son of second marriage. marriage was at Thanet, Kent 1824. John Harrison was a widower on the banns record.. .
Now just to figure out how a widower surnamed HARRISON in Kent and a widow surnamed HARRISON in Hants were related through marriage....
I guess I need to figure out the maiden name of the widow, or the name of her late husband... Umm, JOHN  , BUT his second wife was Susannah Bowles TEMPLE..... - he was a draper at 50 Queen St Ramsgate, but I don't have his death .... been searching for years for that .... In Pigots by 1840, Susannah B Harrison was operating that drapery.... and she was alive in 1841 census too, at around the time Elizabeth Harrison was making her own will as a WIDOW, with grave of her husband at Kingston ....
Perhaps its possible for Elizabeth HARRISON, the widow, to be the mother in law of the John Harrison at Ramgate, but I don't know HIS Dad's first name even
Umm, much to ponder
JM
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 7
|
|
|
|
|
