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Wednesday 02 December 09 03:24 UTC (UK)
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Author Topic: PALMER  (Read 354 times)
DelvaP
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
PALMER
« on: Sunday 27 September 09 12:14 UTC (UK) »
Hi there
I am hoping that someone can help me here.
My grandfather ALBERT EDWARD NORMAN PALMER was born in 1881 in either PORTSMOUTH OR SOUTHAMPTON.  We have a clock presented to my g-grandfather JOHN PALMER by the DOCK YARD on his retirement (unfortunately I don't have the clock so cannot give date)  My g-grandmother was an EMMA NORMAN and it would appear that they were married in DORSET (not sure though) although my g-grandfather was born in ALVERSTOKE (this according to census)  EMMA's age is incorrect on the 1871 and 1881 census but correct on 1891.  I think JOHN PALMER must have been married before he married EMMA.  I would really like to know 1. JOHN's parents and grandparents and if possible further back :-)  and 2.  was be married before and are there any children from that marraige?
At a stage I had that 2 week free trial on ancestory.com but unfortunately did not make notes :-(   Can someone help?
I would really appreciate it.   I can unfortunately only get onto the net over the weekends.
Many thanks
Delva
Bloemfontein  South africa
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Palmer(Hampshire) Norman (Dorset) Jones (Wales) Howgego (Essex) Rhodes(Yorkshire) McLuckie (Stirling, Scotland) Ward (Ireland)
rosie99
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Posts: 1963
Re: PALMER
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 27 September 09 12:37 UTC (UK) »
Hi
The birth registration for Albert E N Palmer is at Portsea reg district Sept qtr 1881. Ref 2b 425.  Portsea covers Portsmouth.  Southampton has a separate registration district.

You really need John's marriage certificate to Emma to find his father, I assume you have one of the childrens birth certificates as you have Emma's surname.

Rosie
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
rosie99
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Posts: 1963
Re: PALMER
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 27 September 09 12:47 UTC (UK) »
Hi

This looks like John with a different wife in 1871 living at Prospect Road Portsea
John PALMER Head  age 48  L M Labourer Dockyard  bn Gosport Hampshire   
Mary A Wife  age 61  bn Gosport   
John J Son  age 21 bn Gosport   
Ann M Daughter-In-Law  age  25  bn Portsmouth
Ann Gdtr 11 months bn Portsmouth

RG10 Piece 1128  F21 P36

In 1861 this John is living at 17 Frederick Street, Portsea
John age 38 Leading man Steam Factory bn Gosport
Mary A age 31 bn Gosport
John (son) age 11 bn Gosport
Rosie     
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
DelvaP
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Posts: 41


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: PALMER
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 27 September 09 12:51 UTC (UK) »
Hi Rosie
Thanks!   I do have Albert's birth cert (copy) but also his 3rd christian name is NORMAN and my Dad's 3rd Christian name is NORMAN it was suppose to follow thru' with all the males and a lot of my cousins in South Africa do have the NORMAN but it seems to have been lost in the 3rd generation - pity!
thanks so much
Will the birth cert tell me where they were married?
must scratch for it......
oh Rosie you're an angel!!  Your 2nd reply came thru as I was typing my reply!!
Wow she was a bit old hey?
THANK YOU!
Delva
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Palmer(Hampshire) Norman (Dorset) Jones (Wales) Howgego (Essex) Rhodes(Yorkshire) McLuckie (Stirling, Scotland) Ward (Ireland)
rosie99
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Posts: 1963
Re: PALMER
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 27 September 09 12:57 UTC (UK) »
Hi Delva

No the birth cert won't say where they were married - I have just checked original of 1871 and it definately says 61 but she is younger in 1861 so would think that was more like it! (Perhaps she felt 61 Grin )

Rosie
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
rosie99
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Posts: 1963
Re: PALMER
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 27 September 09 13:06 UTC (UK) »
I think this might be him in 1841 living at Hawke Street, Portsea
HO107/415 F8/67 P11     
Ann BRAY 40  bn Hampshire 
John PALMER  Brass Founder  20  bn Hampshire 
John CHINCE 20  bn Hampshire 
Peter YEO 50  not bn in county 
Kezia YEO 50  bn Hampshire 
Francis YEO 16  bn Hampshire

Rosie
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
rosie99
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Posts: 1963
Re: PALMER
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 27 September 09 13:10 UTC (UK) »
Quote from: rosie99 on Sunday 27 September 09 12:57 UTC (UK)
Hi Delva

 I have just checked original of 1871 and it definately says 61 but she is younger in 1861 so would think that was more like it! (Perhaps she felt 61 Grin )

Rosie

There is a death - Portsea reg district
Mar qtr 1879
Mary Ann  PALMER 69  Portsea  2b 292
so maybe the 1871 was right  Huh

Rosie
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DelvaP
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: PALMER
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 27 September 09 14:24 UTC (UK) »
Hi Rosie
the mystery deepens !!   If Mary died in 1879  them Emma's first 2 children might not be John's  they were born George in Portland in 1873 and Lionel in Ringstone in 1877  (Where is Ringstone?)
about 25 years ago (long before internet) someone got copies of Albert'sbirth cert for me and said to me they think Emma had been married before..and that her married surname was Norman (gosh.....)  for years I had been searching to try and trace George & Lionel on census  but nothing...I thought they had perhaps left the country!!  but maybe they had a different surname??
gosh I am totally confused..
Emma was born in Portland, Dorset according to 1881 census..
thanksfor your help so far I REALLY do appreciate it.
Delva
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Palmer(Hampshire) Norman (Dorset) Jones (Wales) Howgego (Essex) Rhodes(Yorkshire) McLuckie (Stirling, Scotland) Ward (Ireland)
rosie99
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Posts: 1963
Re: PALMER
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 27 September 09 15:42 UTC (UK) »
Hi

I wonder if this is Emma in 1861 - she changes her age so often and the 1881 can't be right with young children  Huh

RG09 /1351 F12 P19     
living at High Street, Portland
Silvester NORMAN Head  age  45  Tailor bn  Bridgefoot Dorset
Harriet Wife age  36  bn  Bridgefoot 
Thomas Son  age  13  bn  Bridgefoot 
Mary Dtr age  9  bn Portland Dorset 
Emma Dtr age  7 bn  Portland 
Harriet Dtr age 3  bn  Portland 
Silvester J Son age  1  bn  Portland 
William ODDER Boarder Unm age 33  Labourer bn  Uplyme Dorset

Rosie
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
DelvaP
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: PALMER
« Reply #9 on: Sunday 27 September 09 15:51 UTC (UK) »
Yep, I thought that this was her and based ALL my tracing on this info.
Albert's birth cert read :  Formerly NORMAN  but with no other surname.
There was another child ARCHIBALD born around 1884-6 I wonder if I apply for his birth cert (How much does this cost?)   Another thought that has come to mind - I think it might have been a bit of a cheek to give her ex-husband's surname to her first born son by her 2nd husband- maybe she was a Norman married to a Norman.  Oh goodness me...
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Palmer(Hampshire) Norman (Dorset) Jones (Wales) Howgego (Essex) Rhodes(Yorkshire) McLuckie (Stirling, Scotland) Ward (Ireland)
rosie99
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Posts: 1963
Re: PALMER
« Reply #10 on: Sunday 27 September 09 16:03 UTC (UK) »
Hi

There is a marriage for Emma Norman at Weymouth reg district September qtr 1871 to a POSSIBLE Job Hough.

Then a possible marriage at Portsmouth reg district Sept qtr 1880 Emma Hough - John Palmer 

Rosie

And a birth for a Lionel William Hough Dec qtr 1877  Portsea reg district 2b 420
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
DelvaP
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Posts: 41


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: PALMER
« Reply #11 on: Sunday 27 September 09 16:13 UTC (UK) »
Oh Rosie I am SOOOOO impressed, here is me sitting wondering how we are going to sort this out and you already have the answer!!
I really want to come over some time and visit perhaps the graves of my fore-fathers and mothers.   I'll have to pop in and say THANK YOU to you!
Are you resident in Hampshire?
But will have to SAVE SAVE SAVE to make this dream come true.
thanks so much
Delva
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Palmer(Hampshire) Norman (Dorset) Jones (Wales) Howgego (Essex) Rhodes(Yorkshire) McLuckie (Stirling, Scotland) Ward (Ireland)
rosie99
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Posts: 1963
Re: PALMER
« Reply #12 on: Sunday 27 September 09 16:28 UTC (UK) »
It's just confirmed what you thought.  Grin

There is a birth registration for George Hough Weymouth reg district Dec qtr 1873 5a 314 which would also fit.

The marriages are only possibilities though they look highly likely.  I must confess I have really enjoyed this hunt  Grin   I wonder where Lionel and George go to after 1881.  I wonder what happened to her first husband - I suppose he could have been a sailor of some sort. I suppose the marriage cert is the only thing that will clarify anything.

I hope that one day you are able to come over to England, it's lovely to visit where your family are from.  No, I'm not from Hampshire - I am nearer London.

Rosie 
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
DelvaP
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Posts: 41


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: PALMER
« Reply #13 on: Sunday 27 September 09 16:41 UTC (UK) »
Rosie I'm off to Church now....just want to say thank you again.   I am glad you enjoyed,  I am still a bit dum-struck but will digest it and will probably recover :-)
I am sure it is the same person.  Well, now something else to search.
Thanks so much
Delva
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Palmer(Hampshire) Norman (Dorset) Jones (Wales) Howgego (Essex) Rhodes(Yorkshire) McLuckie (Stirling, Scotland) Ward (Ireland)
rosie99
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Posts: 1963
Re: PALMER
« Reply #14 on: Sunday 27 September 09 17:05 UTC (UK) »
Hi

I've just found Lionel in 1891  Grin   Grin   Grin

Royal Hospital School, Greenwich

L W HOUGH Single age 13  bn  Portsmouth Hampshire

RG12 /515 f72 p15

Rosie
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