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Topic: 1861&71Census lookups Wright Family Liverpool (Read 417 times)
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NSWelshwoman
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 26
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thank you Beatle for the death notice - I have his death certificate but great to now have the notice also. Mary A - you have put together the most impressive lot of records and I thank you wholeheartedly. I have been labouring away with this family for so long and it has been so frustrating - and you have covered so much ground in just moments! I am very humbled.... But before I sign off can I ask just another couple of questions?
1) I found no record of Thomas Wright after 1861 (but didn't have access to 1871 census) and assumed he either died or emigrated. Would this be your conclusion also? In 1861 he was a 15 year old Hemp Merchant apprentice.
2) This is the really tricky one - it relates to Samuel snr's parents ROBERT and MARY WRIGHT. This couple baptised their children in Cheshire - the last in 1812 at Over, Cheshire. I could find no more about the family until Samuel snr's marriage in Liverpool in 1831, and his brother (Richard)'s in Liverpool soon after. I have not been able to find any likely death records for Robert and Mary in Cheshire and have concluded the family may have moved to Lancashire/Liverpool some time between 1812 and 1831 . But how to find their deaths? I also could not find any marriage in Cheshire and suspect they may have come initially from Lancashire. Can you suggest any avenue of finding these records in Lancashire (if my theory is correct) when I have such scant information?
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MaryA
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 7822
St Chads, Kirkby
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Firstly I found no references to either Thomas or William after the 1861 census. The difficulty with death records at that date is that they didn't provide an age, so it's very hard to take an educated guess at one entry amongst so many.
I think it would be worth your while investigating whether they may have emigrated, somebody with access to outgoing passenger lists might check up on the records for you to see if there are any likely entries. I bet if they went they went together.
I'm assuming you have searched the Cheshire Parish Register Project site to get your baptisms http://www.csc.liv.ac.uk/~cprdb/
I have a couple of resources for Lancashire and Cheshire records which I'll check for you this evening, although the Cheshire FHS might be able to help.
PS What was the date of their OLDEST child and where, to give some idea of their marriage date and possibly their birth dates.
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Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukLunt (Wavertree/West Derby), Forshaw (West Derby), Richardson (Knowsley), Kent (Cheshire), Cain (Hertfordshire, London), Larkins (Bedfordshire, London), Nunn (London), Lenton, Hillyard (Bedfordshire), Parle, Lambert, Furlong, Wafer (Wexford) Special separate interest in Longford (Blackrock, Dublin) |
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NSWelshwoman
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 26
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thank you Mary A for your thoughts on those two queries. Re Thomas and William Wright: William DID emigrate - to Australia. he is my ggrandfather. I have no idea where Thomas might have gone but as far as I know he didn't come to Australia.
Re Robert and Mary Wright, I have sifted endlessly through the Cheshire PRDb records with no success. I understand many records are not yet included. I have also gone through Cheshire wills and testaments and I am a member of the FHS and had wonderful help from that quarter. While there are plenty of Robert Wrights and Mary Wrights around, nothing seems to fit. Their eldest child was baptised in July 1797 in Nantwich, but I can't find a marriage that fits in with that timing. After a few births in Nantwich they moved to Minshull , more children,then moved again after a few years to Over, had two more children then vanished with their 10 children after 1812. I have tracked 2 in Liverpool and one remaining in Cheshire. It seems that it may have been a short stint in Cheshire for a family from elsewhere - but I am at a loss to know how to proceed. Baines 1824 has a Robert Wright, woolen draper, living at Little Wooltan that looks like the best lead, but I know nothing more of him. A curious fact is that Samuel and Mary's first child was born (1832) when they were living at Lime Kiln Lane, Liverpool - which has a Wright St off it. Could the family have been running some business or living there? Any suggestions would be appreciated.
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NSWelshwoman
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 26
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thanks Mary A for your latest very helpful suggestions - I will definitely follow all that up. Having put together the now quite comprehensive "family story" from all the census records you have so kindly sent me I am almost complete but it would be great to fill a couple of census gaps if you wouldn't mind helping me a little bit more. The gaps relate to 1) the 1891 census for Matha Wright/Webster and 2) 1891 and 1901 census' for Catherine Wright/Hodgson, living at 202 Patliament St Toxteth Park with husband John and 4 children in 1881. I am also hoping one of the 1891 census' might include mother Mary Wright to help me better pinpoint her possible death date. Thank you again for your most generous assistance. NSWelshwoman
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MaryA
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 7822
St Chads, Kirkby
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Geez did I manage to miss some?
1) the 1891 census for Matha Wright/Webster Check Reply No. 9 which includes both 1891 and 1901.
1871 - Reply 5 on Page 1 relates to the Trants at 2 Pembroke Road and Reply 3 relates to Mary Wright/Martha Whaley at 4 Pembroke Road.
Also living in 2 Pembroke Road was
John Hodgson Head Mar 26 Professor of Music Cumberland Carlisle
Catherine Wife M 31 Lancashire Liverpool
James Brother Unm 18 Professor of Music Cumberland Carlisle
RG10; Piece: 3831; Folio: 123; Page: 31
Required information for a look up request includes birthplaces and occupations
1881 - 202 Upper Parliament Street, Toxteth Park
John Hodgson Head M 36 Professor of Music Cumberland Carlisle
Catherine Wife M 36 Lancashire Liverpool
Emma J E daur 9 Scholar Lancashire Bootle
John F P Son 7 " " "
William F E Son 5 " " Liverpool
Ellenor B daur 1 " "
Mary Wright Mother in Law W 75 Retired Timber Merchant's Wife Middlesex London
Fanny Griffiths Servant Unm 16 Domestic Servant Lancashire Manchester
RG11; Piece: 3648; Folio: 46; Page: 24
No luck either 1891 or 1901, perhaps this is another family to search the outgoing passenger lists.
The most likely death for Mary would be the 1885 Toxteth Park 8b 179 age 82 since this was the area she was last living.
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Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukLunt (Wavertree/West Derby), Forshaw (West Derby), Richardson (Knowsley), Kent (Cheshire), Cain (Hertfordshire, London), Larkins (Bedfordshire, London), Nunn (London), Lenton, Hillyard (Bedfordshire), Parle, Lambert, Furlong, Wafer (Wexford) Special separate interest in Longford (Blackrock, Dublin) |
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MaryA
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 7822
St Chads, Kirkby
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Unfortunately I didn't have any luck with Robert & Mary on my CD, nor did I find any MI's for Samuel or Mary on Gibsons.
Also checked Wills, I'm very surprised Samuel didn't leave one.
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Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukLunt (Wavertree/West Derby), Forshaw (West Derby), Richardson (Knowsley), Kent (Cheshire), Cain (Hertfordshire, London), Larkins (Bedfordshire, London), Nunn (London), Lenton, Hillyard (Bedfordshire), Parle, Lambert, Furlong, Wafer (Wexford) Special separate interest in Longford (Blackrock, Dublin) |
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NSWelshwoman
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 26
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Mary A - I am most indebted. Thank you so much for all that. Apologies for missing the 1891 for Martha, which you are quite correct - I already had. I had located Catherine in Settle, Yorkshire West Riding in 1911, so it seems she might have moved there (or somewhere else in between) soon after her mother's death, which I had also zeroed in as being 1885, but had a different entry (8b 355) - I will check out both. Thank you, most especially for checking out Robert and Mary, as well as the wills and MIs - every bit helps with this lot!! I am very, very appreciative of your generous assistance. NSWelshwoman
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MaryA
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 7822
St Chads, Kirkby
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Please tell me what Catherine and John give as their places of birth on the 1911 census, don't give full details from the transcript as we don't want to contravene copyright on here and besides it's not necessary.
I just know that they don't give the same birthplaces as they did in 1871 and 1881 so I'm curious and it may help with the search for them in 1891 and 1901.
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Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukLunt (Wavertree/West Derby), Forshaw (West Derby), Richardson (Knowsley), Kent (Cheshire), Cain (Hertfordshire, London), Larkins (Bedfordshire, London), Nunn (London), Lenton, Hillyard (Bedfordshire), Parle, Lambert, Furlong, Wafer (Wexford) Special separate interest in Longford (Blackrock, Dublin) |
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NSWelshwoman
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 26
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I have not been able to find any trace in 1901 and in 1911 I have just taken informaton from the National Archives summary information from Findmypast. What I found there was that a Catherine Hodgson (Bn 1839, aged 72), a John Hodgson (bn 1834, age 77) and a John Hodgson (Bn 1875, aged 36) all lived at Settle, Yorkshire, W Riding. There was no other likely looking Catherine, (and no Profs of Music anywhere I could find in 1901 - which I could access for occupations). Of those 3 Hodgsons Catherine and John jnr were the right ages but John snr I'm not sure (recorded as the same age as Catherine in 1881 - and Catherine 5 years older than him in 1871 - so not sure where the accurate relative ages lie there). The summary information didn't, however include birth places. Sorry I can't be more helpful on the question of birthplaces.
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MaryA
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 7822
St Chads, Kirkby
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I thought maybe you had accessed the image.
I'm sorry to say that this couple are not your John and Catherine, having tested out the index they are born John in Ingleton Yorks and Catherine in Bentham Yorks and in 1901 they were living in Thornton in Lonsdale, Settle, Yorkshire.
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Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukLunt (Wavertree/West Derby), Forshaw (West Derby), Richardson (Knowsley), Kent (Cheshire), Cain (Hertfordshire, London), Larkins (Bedfordshire, London), Nunn (London), Lenton, Hillyard (Bedfordshire), Parle, Lambert, Furlong, Wafer (Wexford) Special separate interest in Longford (Blackrock, Dublin) |
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NSWelshwoman
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 26
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thank you Mary A for checking that through - it seems then that your suggestion that they might have emigrated seems a likely explanation. I note that there was no death record on Feeebmd for a Catherine Hodgson 1881-1901 in Lancashire that might provide an alternative explanation.
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NSWelshwoman
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 26
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hello again Mary A. I have a new question regarding the family of my Mary Wright nee Ward, who married at St Nicholas, Liverpool in 1831 as "a spinster from this parish". In the 1851 census her mother Sarah Ward, a 79 year old retired grocer, was visiting. I have been looking for a family that might fit in with this description, and a promising lead is that of John Ward, Grocer, of Derby Square, Liverpool, listed in the 1766 Gore's Directory of Residents - rather on the early side, but the only real lead I have in Liverpool. I have also located a marriage in 1820 of a Sarah Ward to a James Cook on 31 January at St George, Derby Square. Witnesses included Mary, Ann, William, Edward W and George Ward. I am wondering how I might be able to find anything further on this family - whether it might be the right one. Mary Wright was however London born, according to census'. While it follows on from this thread, I do not expect you to feel obligated to do any more than the research you have already done for me - which has been so generous. Should I start a new thread?
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MaryA
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 7822
St Chads, Kirkby
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Although I don't mind helping out where I can, I feel that the thread has changed now from Wrights to Wards and it could benefit a posting of it's own. I'm assuming that you believe the Sarah who married in 1820 would be a sibling rather than the mother of Mary Wright? Difficult without ages but of course identifying baptisms to the same parents would be wonderful if they can be found.
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Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukLunt (Wavertree/West Derby), Forshaw (West Derby), Richardson (Knowsley), Kent (Cheshire), Cain (Hertfordshire, London), Larkins (Bedfordshire, London), Nunn (London), Lenton, Hillyard (Bedfordshire), Parle, Lambert, Furlong, Wafer (Wexford) Special separate interest in Longford (Blackrock, Dublin) |
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NSWelshwoman
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 26
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thanks for that opinion Mary A - I will start afresh with a Ward family, Liverpool thread. Incidently, before I leave the Wrights, I note that you have Bailey as one of your family interests. While I cannot presume to have found a correct match, the best possible marriage I could find for Robert and mary Wright is a marriage at Flixton in January 1794 between a Robert Wright and Mary Beeley/Bailey. This Mary was christened in Liverpool in 1772, the daughter of Joseph Beeley/Bailey, whose family were from Sandbach, Cheshire. Joseph's father Thomas appeared to come from Church Minshull /Nantwich - this all seemed too much of a co-incidence with my lot of Wright's living in the same area 80-90 years later. Flixton would seem an unlikely place for a marriage of my Robert and Mary - but I can't find anything (from records available to me) that looks any more likely. Any likely connection with your Baileys?
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MaryA
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 7822
St Chads, Kirkby
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Unfortunately I don't think they are connected, in fact I should probably now remove the name Bailey from my signature as I believe I've found out most of what I wanted about them, as they were pretty much a sideline.
In 1875 Samuel Bayley married Elizabeth Lunt at St Mary's, Edge Hill, West Derby. He was from Wildboarclough in Cheshire and had previously been married to a Mary Emma Wheelton.
He was born in 1831 and had siblings Mary and John, parents were Samuel and Maria, apparently all from Wildboarclough.
I think it might be worth your while checking on Genesreunited for members of the Bailey famly from Cheshire as I discovered quite a number of researchers interested in this family.
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Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukLunt (Wavertree/West Derby), Forshaw (West Derby), Richardson (Knowsley), Kent (Cheshire), Cain (Hertfordshire, London), Larkins (Bedfordshire, London), Nunn (London), Lenton, Hillyard (Bedfordshire), Parle, Lambert, Furlong, Wafer (Wexford) Special separate interest in Longford (Blackrock, Dublin) |
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