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Topic: SHORLEY & STUBBLES (Read 664 times)
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bedfordshire boy
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 4752
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I wouldn't worry too much about Eliza/Elizabeth. The IGI has an extracted marriage in Renhold between James Shorley and Eliza Copperwheat in 1846, and then a baptism in Renhold of Martha in 1847, mother Eliza, followed by another Renhold baptism on 1848 of Elizabeth, mother Elizabeth, then back to mother Eliza for William in 1854. It's pretty clear that it's the same family.
Why do you think Elizabeth Shorley married Richard Stubbles, other than someone told you? Have you found them in any census?
In 1871 she was a servant aged 22 born Rennoll Beds in Marylebone, so that cuts down the possible marriage dates, and completely rules out the 1871 Stubbles couple that Carole found and had ruled out. But I can't find a marriage or death for her, nor can I see her in any subsequent census
David
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukBeds: Cople: Luke/Spencer Everton: Hale Henlow: Cooper/Watts/Sabey Potton: Merrill Southill: Faulkner/Litchfield/Sabey Woburn/Husborne Crawley: Surkitt Hunts: Gt Gransden: Merrill/Chandler/Medlock Toseland: Surkitt/Hedge/Corn Cambs: Bourn: Bowd Eltisley: Medlock Graveley: Ford/Revell |
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polidor
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1151
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Thanks for the replies bedfordshire boy &CaroleW-----reason---i had Eliza Copperwheat & James Shorley in my tree with just the one daughter Elizabeth.
A contact from GR some months ago gave me info about Elizabeth marrying R.Stubbles. This info i had not yet added because i had not checked them for myself--they were both sitting in the 'maybe' notes.
The GR contact mailed me again yesterday asking if Elizabeth & Richard were actually married --i think she must be having second thoughts-- i replied to her that i would try to find out for sure if Elizabeth HAD married a Richard Stubbles and began by double checking her parents marriage and her own birth .
The time span--well basically i just thought that Elizabeth would marry--if indeed she did, somewhere between the ages of 20 & 30.
The only 1871 entry for a Richard Stubbles with a wife Elizabeth does not match your profile
Yes, i came across that one--not sure which direction to go in really now--i think my best bet now is to get in touch with my GR lady and ask her why she seemed so sure of the E.S & R.S marriage in her 1st message from months back  poli
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http://polidoris2.tribalpages.com WALES:Brymbo,Lodge,Pwllglas,Ruthin,Leeswood,Mold,Chester,Liverpool Holywell NAMES: Evans-Roberts-Hughes-Owen-Powell-Barker-Morris-Jones-Edwards- ENGLAND:-Hendon[Middx] -Ampthill [Bedfordshire] Norwich [Norfolk]-[Carlow]Ireland -Leicestershire [Shearsby] Gillingham, Dorset-Northamptonshire. NAMES:Smart--[De Lima]Woods-Copperwheat-Totterdell-Thompson-Whitebread-Nudd-Golding-Farrow-Oakley-Billington-Ostler-Denton-Sherwood-Cuckow-Franklin-Law-Edge-Silver
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bedfordshire boy
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 4752
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The Shorleys had other children in Renhold, and then in Kempston and Bedford, if you do a parent search on the IGI. In 1861 they were living in Clapham Rd Bedford, indexed on Ancestry as Sherley, with seven children born in Renhold and Kempston.
One assumes that your GR contact must have found something which has escaped us, as presumably it's not just pure fiction!
Interesting that all GR trees and Ancestry trees show her birthplace as Blunham, yet in all censuses she gives her birthplace as Kempston. What do you show? Have you found her in 1841?
David
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukBeds: Cople: Luke/Spencer Everton: Hale Henlow: Cooper/Watts/Sabey Potton: Merrill Southill: Faulkner/Litchfield/Sabey Woburn/Husborne Crawley: Surkitt Hunts: Gt Gransden: Merrill/Chandler/Medlock Toseland: Surkitt/Hedge/Corn Cambs: Bourn: Bowd Eltisley: Medlock Graveley: Ford/Revell |
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bedfordshire boy
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 4752
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That's the she I was looking for in 1841 John. Obviously a mistake to confine my search to Beds! I'd found them in 1851 badly transcribed, which confirmed that in all censuses with a birthplace it was Kempston, so notwithstanding that the marriage father, John, ties up with the Blunham father, I'm a bit perplexed that she didn't seem to know where she was coming from, so to speak.
David
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukBeds: Cople: Luke/Spencer Everton: Hale Henlow: Cooper/Watts/Sabey Potton: Merrill Southill: Faulkner/Litchfield/Sabey Woburn/Husborne Crawley: Surkitt Hunts: Gt Gransden: Merrill/Chandler/Medlock Toseland: Surkitt/Hedge/Corn Cambs: Bourn: Bowd Eltisley: Medlock Graveley: Ford/Revell |
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polidor
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1151
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John P-bedford--"The IGI has baptism of Eliza Copperthwaite at Blunham on 25 July 1824 to John & Alice"
Yes, Eliza's parents were indeed John Copperwheat & Alice nee Hills.
Eliza married James Shorley in 1846 and we know there is a birth for daughter Elizabeth in 1848--did she marry Richard Stubbles though?
My GR contact sent me in an earlier message, the info that Elizabeth married Richard Stubbles presumably before 1873 because she told me they had a daughter Florence b MAY 1873. This marriage is apparently now in dispute as she has asked me if i had a marriage for Elizabeth & Stubbles.
I don't have Elizabeth married as yet in my tree so i told her i would look into it.
I truly don't know where she got her idea that Richard Stubbles married an Elizabeth Shorley in the first place. I will Pm her and ask.
The Shorley name seems to get a lot of variations everywhere which doesn't help
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http://polidoris2.tribalpages.com WALES:Brymbo,Lodge,Pwllglas,Ruthin,Leeswood,Mold,Chester,Liverpool Holywell NAMES: Evans-Roberts-Hughes-Owen-Powell-Barker-Morris-Jones-Edwards- ENGLAND:-Hendon[Middx] -Ampthill [Bedfordshire] Norwich [Norfolk]-[Carlow]Ireland -Leicestershire [Shearsby] Gillingham, Dorset-Northamptonshire. NAMES:Smart--[De Lima]Woods-Copperwheat-Totterdell-Thompson-Whitebread-Nudd-Golding-Farrow-Oakley-Billington-Ostler-Denton-Sherwood-Cuckow-Franklin-Law-Edge-Silver
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bedfordshire boy
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 4752
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I think that Polidor's GR contact has got wires seriously crossed. Just looking at the 1881 census seems to blow holes in the Stubbles/Shorley marriage. Florence born in Kensington registration district in the June quarter 1873 seems to be aged 7 in 1881 living in St George Hanover Square with her widowed mother Elizabeth Stubbles age 47 and siblings aged 23 (Jane b Reading) to 4. Elizabeth was born in Blandford Dorset, so seems to be the one that Carole found in 1871. There's a death of Richard Stubbles age 43 in St George Hanover Sq in March 1881.
There's an 1857 marriage in Reading of Richard Stubbles and Jane Kerley. There's an Elizabeth Kerly baptised in Blandford Forum in 1834, daughter of William and Jane. Elizabeth Stubbles eldest daughter was Jane. Elizabeth is consistently shown as born in Dorset in 1861-71-81 so I don't think there can be complications with second marriages
Any connection to Elizabeth Shorley born 1848 in Renhold escapes me! Florence's birth cert would prove or disprove my theory, which is just that - an untested theory.
Perhaps the GR contact can explain the logic. Does she have Florence's birth cert? Might there have been a Kerley/Sherley/Shorley bit of creative thinking? Doesn't explain the age/birthplace discrepancy though.
David
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukBeds: Cople: Luke/Spencer Everton: Hale Henlow: Cooper/Watts/Sabey Potton: Merrill Southill: Faulkner/Litchfield/Sabey Woburn/Husborne Crawley: Surkitt Hunts: Gt Gransden: Merrill/Chandler/Medlock Toseland: Surkitt/Hedge/Corn Cambs: Bourn: Bowd Eltisley: Medlock Graveley: Ford/Revell |
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poli