Welcome, Guest. Please login or register for free.
Did you miss your activation email?
Thursday 26 November 09 12:20 UTC (UK)
Welcome Home Help Surnames Library Shop Search Login Register

+  RootsChat.Com
|-+  England (Counties as in 1851-1901)
| |-+  England - General
| | |-+  Lancashire (Moderators: sarah, JDGen)
| | | |-+  Manchester Catholic Parish Church - 1848
« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2 Print
Author Topic: Manchester Catholic Parish Church - 1848  (Read 560 times)
KitCarson
RootsChat Extra
**
Posts: 33


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Manchester Catholic Parish Church - 1848
« on: Wednesday 30 September 09 13:31 UTC (UK) »
Hi, I have a marriage between John McKethney and Ellen Holt on 3/12/1848.  The certificate says 'Marriage solemnized at the Catholic Parish Church in the Parish of Manchester in the County of Lancaster.'  Can anyone tell me where this would have been in Manchester and whether it still stands?  Thanks, Kit
Logged
Rimmer: St Helens, Lancs
Carson: St Helens, Lancs/Belfast
Kelly: St Helens, Lancs/Mullingar, West Meath
Ronan: St Helens, Lancs/Wexford
Stott: Huyton Quarry, Lancs
Cunningham: St Helens, Liverpool/New Monkland, Glasgow/Ireland
velpremus
RootsChat Extra
**
Posts: 52
Re: Manchester Catholic Parish Church - 1848
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 30 September 09 16:55 UTC (UK) »
Here you go:

http://hiddengem.catholicfaith.co.uk/
Logged
Pathway
RootsChat Extra
**
Posts: 29
Re: Manchester Catholic Parish Church - 1848
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 01 October 09 07:32 UTC (UK) »
According to LancsBMD that marriage was at  Manchester Cathedral
Logged
KitCarson
RootsChat Extra
**
Posts: 33


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Manchester Catholic Parish Church - 1848
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 01 October 09 08:08 UTC (UK) »
Velpremus - thanks for the link, I enjoyed reading the history.

Hi Pathway - it's interesting you say that as someone with the same relatives has told me the same.  I presume Cathedrals are used in the same way as a local parish church?
Logged
Rimmer: St Helens, Lancs
Carson: St Helens, Lancs/Belfast
Kelly: St Helens, Lancs/Mullingar, West Meath
Ronan: St Helens, Lancs/Wexford
Stott: Huyton Quarry, Lancs
Cunningham: St Helens, Liverpool/New Monkland, Glasgow/Ireland
velpremus
RootsChat Extra
**
Posts: 52
Re: Manchester Catholic Parish Church - 1848
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 01 October 09 13:47 UTC (UK) »
With the exception of Jews and Quakers all marriages that were not "Church of England" were not considered legal  under the Lord Hardwicke Marriage act of 1754.

Your couple would have got married at the Cathedral and then had another service at the catholic church.
Logged
KitCarson
RootsChat Extra
**
Posts: 33


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Manchester Catholic Parish Church - 1848
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 01 October 09 16:26 UTC (UK) »
I'm still very new to this FH research and not religious at all (although both parent and extended family were catholics) so all this information is fantastic. So the second service would have been held at the church you kindly provided the link to?  I'll certainly need to check these out when I'm next in St Helens and take a trip over to Manchester.  Cheers, Kit, Edinburgh
Logged
Rimmer: St Helens, Lancs
Carson: St Helens, Lancs/Belfast
Kelly: St Helens, Lancs/Mullingar, West Meath
Ronan: St Helens, Lancs/Wexford
Stott: Huyton Quarry, Lancs
Cunningham: St Helens, Liverpool/New Monkland, Glasgow/Ireland
Pathway
RootsChat Extra
**
Posts: 29
Re: Manchester Catholic Parish Church - 1848
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 01 October 09 16:32 UTC (UK) »
Does the certificate say 'catholic' or could it be an abbreviation of cathedral. The cathedral was once the parish church
Logged
KitCarson
RootsChat Extra
**
Posts: 33


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Manchester Catholic Parish Church - 1848
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 01 October 09 16:44 UTC (UK) »
Mmm, good question.  I have it in front of me and its difficult to say.  It certainly says 'Cath.' and after the dot, a letter/symbol that looks like 'll' but a bit more open at the top like a capital V, so it looks like ...... the Cath.V Parish Church ..........  His hand writing is a bit curly and flourishing.  Does it mean anything to anyone?

I should have said, John is from Scotland and his grandfather was a Church Minister in Inveresk, Midlothian.  Until I do more research, I would expect that to be Church of Scotland, so I expect the Catholic angle doesn't really fit does it?
Logged
Rimmer: St Helens, Lancs
Carson: St Helens, Lancs/Belfast
Kelly: St Helens, Lancs/Mullingar, West Meath
Ronan: St Helens, Lancs/Wexford
Stott: Huyton Quarry, Lancs
Cunningham: St Helens, Liverpool/New Monkland, Glasgow/Ireland
cathaldus
RootsChat Senior
****
Posts: 285


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Manchester Catholic Parish Church - 1848
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 01 October 09 17:48 UTC (UK) »
As a Catholic myself,  I cannot go along with the statement that a Catholic couple would go thro' a wedding in a CofE Cathedral and then a Catholic church later on!   Surely they would have opted to "live in sin" as their faith would be compromised and they themselves would feel that they were not "married".   Surely this must be a CofE couple being married in a church of their faith,  either a local one associated with the Cathedral or the Cathedral itself!

Bill   
Logged
KitCarson
RootsChat Extra
**
Posts: 33


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Manchester Catholic Parish Church - 1848
« Reply #9 on: Thursday 01 October 09 17:57 UTC (UK) »
Bill

In hindsight, I would have to agree.  I was probably lured by the 'Marriage solemnized at the Cath... Parish Church ....'  These are my Aunt's line (she's my Aunt by marriage, but asked me to try and locate her relatives) and although her familiar family is now Catholic, they may well have been something else a century or so earlier.
Logged
Rimmer: St Helens, Lancs
Carson: St Helens, Lancs/Belfast
Kelly: St Helens, Lancs/Mullingar, West Meath
Ronan: St Helens, Lancs/Wexford
Stott: Huyton Quarry, Lancs
Cunningham: St Helens, Liverpool/New Monkland, Glasgow/Ireland
jds1949
RootsChat Member
***
Posts: 184


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Manchester Catholic Parish Church - 1848
« Reply #10 on: Thursday 01 October 09 18:12 UTC (UK) »
If the certificate is the normal kind it should say immediately under the information about the two parties something along the lines of:

"Married in the [name of church] according to the Rites and ceremonies of the Established Church"

If that is the case then it's almost certainly a marriage at the Cathedral Church of Manchester - C of E - if it's the Catholic Cathedral then the wording will say "according to the rites and ceremonies of the Roman Catholics"

jds1949
Logged
Swarbrick - all and any
Luzzu
RootsChat Veteran
*****
Posts: 519
Re: Manchester Catholic Parish Church - 1848
« Reply #11 on: Thursday 01 October 09 22:24 UTC (UK) »
I understand that many Catholic couples married in Manchester Cathedral (CofE) in the 19th century as I think they believed the marriage would not be valid unless they were married in the Established Church because of Hardwickes 1754 Marriage Act.

My gt grandmother had both a CofE and a RC marriage.  Her father who I know was definitely RC was married after Banns in the Established Church but was buried as a Catholic.  His older brother and their parents were married according to the Rites and Ceremonies of the Catholic Church.  They lived in a very poor area and could neither read nor write so I suppose they tried to follow what they thought was right the best way they could.

Also there weren't enough churches in Manchester to accommodate the huge increase in the population.

There was also something to do with fees.  When a couple got married in Manchester they had to pay both the local church and the Collegiate Church (Manchester Cathedral) so it was cheaper to get married at Manchester Cathedral.

Its a fascinating subject.

Luzzu
Logged
Buck, Staffs & Hants; Crummett, Norfolk & Burnley; Osborne, Cornwall & Burnley; Haigh/Hague, Manchester & Todmorden; Grant, Manchester & Ireland; France, Manchester & Yorkshire; Shackleton, Burnley, Yorkshire & Australia;
emmsthheight
RootsChat Aristocrat
******
Posts: 1893


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


WWW
Re: Manchester Catholic Parish Church - 1848
« Reply #12 on: Thursday 01 October 09 22:33 UTC (UK) »
Hi Luzzu and all

Luzzu, you more or less read my mind!  I have always been told that at this stage in the 19C loads of people who were of other denominations were married in the Established Church because of the various effects of the aftermath of the earlier bill, not leat of all relating to money and legitimacy of children.

Like Luzzu there are Roman Catholics in my family who were married in the established church, and brought their children up in the Roman Catholic faith, as ois shown in their baptismal records, funerals and family stories.  Some of these were married in Manchester Cathedral.

I haven't actually found second marriages but I'm told not all of these were recorded because of the insecure times they were living in.

Incidentally, I was told that  there was once a Catholic priest based at the Cathedral.  Not sure of the details though.

All makes the research more interesting!

Best wishes

Emms
Logged
Luzzu
RootsChat Veteran
*****
Posts: 519
Re: Manchester Catholic Parish Church - 1848
« Reply #13 on: Thursday 01 October 09 22:39 UTC (UK) »
Hi again,

Just found quite an interesting article on Roman Catholic marriages in Manchester in the 19th century on this link:-

http://www.manchester-family-history-research.co.uk/new_page_12.htm

It basically says that prior to 1908 getting married outside the Catholic Church did not go against the church.  I would love to post the whole item but I am certain it will break the copyright rules.

You have to scroll down a bit because its near the bottom of the page.

This website is really good generally and has some fascinating stuff about Manchester on it.

Luzzu
Logged
Buck, Staffs & Hants; Crummett, Norfolk & Burnley; Osborne, Cornwall & Burnley; Haigh/Hague, Manchester & Todmorden; Grant, Manchester & Ireland; France, Manchester & Yorkshire; Shackleton, Burnley, Yorkshire & Australia;
KitCarson
RootsChat Extra
**
Posts: 33


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Manchester Catholic Parish Church - 1848
« Reply #14 on: Thursday 01 October 09 22:51 UTC (UK) »
Hey Luzzu, really appreciate your info.  Gaining knowledge as I go!  Kit
Logged
Rimmer: St Helens, Lancs
Carson: St Helens, Lancs/Belfast
Kelly: St Helens, Lancs/Mullingar, West Meath
Ronan: St Helens, Lancs/Wexford
Stott: Huyton Quarry, Lancs
Cunningham: St Helens, Liverpool/New Monkland, Glasgow/Ireland
Pages: [1] 2 Print 
« previous next »


[Copyright] [Shrink Link] [About Us] [Terms of Use]
All Census Lookups are Crown Copyright, National Archives for academic and non-commercial research purposes only
RootsChat.com cannot be held responsible directly or indirectly for the messages or content posted by others. Inline images in messages are the copyright of the respective linked sites.
RootsChat.com, Europa House, Bury, Lancashire, BL9 5BT

In loving memory of Eric George Davies, 1934-2009, the father of RootsChat.com































Powered by SMF 1.0.7 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC
0.048:18