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Topic: A scotsman born in USA (Read 156 times)
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weemantam
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 26
If you think education is expensive, try ignorance
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I have a relative who is a bit of an enigma and I'd like someone who is familiar with USA birth records - probably OHIO - to help me out here.
My relative, Andrew Simpson, was born in the USA about 1871. I've attached an image of his ancestry profile (no I haven't 'twas removed my das moderators  Shouldn't matter though....) Info basically is that his parents are both Scottish. They either met in the USA and got married there on 3rd October 1870 or met prior to travelling over then married while they were there.
Thomas (the father), at least, travelled over July 1869. I cant find when Helen Tinn/Thayne travelled although it must have been about the same time but probably closer to their marriage.
The USA census for 1870 has Thomas in Salt Creek, Wayne, Ohio on the 23rd June 1870. He then gets married in the same town. Then sometime over the next year and a bit Helen has a wee babbie, location uknown but Andrews census entries back in Scotland all state USA.
He, and his parents, then return to Scotland between this event and 1873. He then goes on to receive a further 9 siblings all in Fife, Scotland.
Andrews' middle name initial is either R or B though I believe it may be B for Bowman.
Thanks for any help.
Steve
UPDATE:
Scottish Census records read as follows:
1881 born about 1872 in "S., America U."
1891 born about 1871 in "America"
1901 born about 1872 at "United States America, B.S."
Moderator comment: regret, screenshots of Ancestry trees may not be posted here.
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« Last Edit: Thursday 01 October 09 18:44 UTC (UK) by weemantam »
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Fife esp Burntisland, Dysart, Lochore, Cowdenbeath, Dalgety
Gibb, Armour, Simpson, Thayne, McTrusty, Brennan, Bird, Thomson
Ewens, Dickson, Banks, Davidson, Howie, McLaren, Adamson
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weemantam
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 26
If you think education is expensive, try ignorance
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Already done. They had the marriage certificate on file - which I now have - but no sign of the birth certificate for the son.... Figured they may have had him elsewhere in the same(ish) area but have no way of identifying where except possibly finding out what B.S. is (other than the obvious!) in the 1901 census "United States America, B.S."
Thanks for the suggestion though.
Steve
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Fife esp Burntisland, Dysart, Lochore, Cowdenbeath, Dalgety
Gibb, Armour, Simpson, Thayne, McTrusty, Brennan, Bird, Thomson
Ewens, Dickson, Banks, Davidson, Howie, McLaren, Adamson
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aghadowey
Global Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 13614
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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B.S. means British Subject (meaning in this case born of British parents).
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weemantam
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 26
If you think education is expensive, try ignorance
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Superb. But... would being a British Subject affect whether or not his birth was recorded in the states?
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Fife esp Burntisland, Dysart, Lochore, Cowdenbeath, Dalgety
Gibb, Armour, Simpson, Thayne, McTrusty, Brennan, Bird, Thomson
Ewens, Dickson, Banks, Davidson, Howie, McLaren, Adamson
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aghadowey
Global Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 13614
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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B.S. for British Subject is commonly used in census. In theory it would have nothing to do with registering/not registering the birth wherever it took place in America. Each U.S. State is different as to when statewide registratiuon began but at the time of the birth it should have been recorded just like any other birth in the locality.
In the British census his birthplace was given as America. British Subject was added to show that although born outside the country he was still entitled to British citizenship.
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weemantam
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 26
If you think education is expensive, try ignorance
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re BS: are you sure it is not BC "British Citizen" (British Sitizen doesn't quite work).
I'd be interested to know whether you have Helen in prior UK censuses, and why the confusion on her surname.
Did they know each other before and she traveled over specifically to marry him? Or did they meet after 1870 census and have a whirlwind (Jun 23-Oct 3 not that long) romance?
This doesn't get you Andrew's birth cert (if it even exists), but can help set the scene.
Nick
I've attached a teeny tiny segment which hopefully addresses the BS bit. I think it is indeed British Subject, makes sense.
Helen's dad was a Daniel Tinnie or Tinn or Thayne (plus a couple of other variations) in the various local generations. Most of them either settled on Tinn or Thayne. I can only imagine that if it was Irish origin - though there is no evidence of that - then you can barely tell the difference in pronunciation.
I'm fairly sure that Thomas went across to get work and she followed after with the specific intent of getting married away from the family. Thomas travelled across with his elder brother, Richard, both miners apparently looking for work. I cant find Helen's transit records, not because they dont exist, it;s more likely that it would be impossible to ratify if it was a relevant entry. That aside, she was born in Aberdour and he was born in Kirkcaldy which are only about 10 coastal miles apart in Fife. This means it is very possible they met before traveling. Thomas going out to "test the water" so to speak. Otherwise they ddin;t exactly hang about once whe went over herself!
Thanks for replying though 
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 usabs.jpg (11.84 KB, 438x67 - viewed 40 times.)
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Fife esp Burntisland, Dysart, Lochore, Cowdenbeath, Dalgety
Gibb, Armour, Simpson, Thayne, McTrusty, Brennan, Bird, Thomson
Ewens, Dickson, Banks, Davidson, Howie, McLaren, Adamson
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weemantam
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 26
If you think education is expensive, try ignorance
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B.S. for British Subject is commonly used in census. In theory it would have nothing to do with registering/not registering the birth wherever it took place in America. Each U.S. State is different as to when statewide registratiuon began but at the time of the birth it should have been recorded just like any other birth in the locality.
In the British census his birthplace was given as America. British Subject was added to show that although born outside the country he was still entitled to British citizenship.
Makes sense. Thanks for the info.
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Fife esp Burntisland, Dysart, Lochore, Cowdenbeath, Dalgety
Gibb, Armour, Simpson, Thayne, McTrusty, Brennan, Bird, Thomson
Ewens, Dickson, Banks, Davidson, Howie, McLaren, Adamson
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weemantam
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 26
If you think education is expensive, try ignorance
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BTW yes I did get Helen in previous census records with her folks...
1851 Helen Tine with parents
1861 Helen Tinn with parents again
Interestingly no 1870's census either here in Scotland or stateside.
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Fife esp Burntisland, Dysart, Lochore, Cowdenbeath, Dalgety
Gibb, Armour, Simpson, Thayne, McTrusty, Brennan, Bird, Thomson
Ewens, Dickson, Banks, Davidson, Howie, McLaren, Adamson
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