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Topic: Scott/Adoption/1919..need help! (Read 2280 times)
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Daisy Loo
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1267
4 generations of Prestidge, 1835-1985
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Kathy...it appears I may have offended you. If I have I am sorry.
From a niece in the family. She had heard that a child had "died." She also said the Houchins were Catholic.
Keeping you straight   ....niece in whose family?... have you yet the copy of the Dowling/Houchin marriage cert.? Added: Like minded thinking Monica!
You asked for an explanation...I'll give you one. The reason I put in whose niece is that you have given more information without explaining where/how it came about. If you want people to help, everything needs to be explained and verified. I thought I was teasing in manner, it appears not, and I have offended you in some way.
My comment "like minded thinking Monica" was because me and monica posted at the same time, with the same thought...(new information...where from...)
I wish you the very best of luck...and truly hope that your search brings peace to this poignant and sad story.
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BARNETT- Buckinghamshire, Bedfordshire, Dorset HILSDEN/HILLSDEN/HILLSDON- Buckinghamshire, Berkshire, Canada PRESTIDGE/PRESTAGE- Warwickshire, Northamptonshire, Islington PINNIGER/PINEGAR/PINNEGAR - Wiltshire Branmbleby - Kent, Middlesex
LEACH- Norfolk BUTTERWORTH - Lancashire OTTON - Somerset LAWRENCE - Berkshire
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ankerdine
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 636
Without Autumn there would be no Spring....
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I and I am sure other Rootschatters have been following this story with great interest. We just hope that there will be a happy and conclusive outcome and that the family will be happy for their story to be told. 
Judy
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Marshall, Williamson, Blair, Hoggart(h): Creetown, Stranraer, Dalrymple, Auchinleck, Coylton
Scott, Ayrshire and England
Saxton, Brown, Sketchley: Nottingham, Rutland, Leicestershire
Bradbury, Turner, Merricks: Walsall, Penkridge, Staffordshire
McColville, Halliday: Northern Ireland
Hawker, Davies: Aston, Birmingham, Shropshire, Malone: Black Country
Silvers: Dudley, Worcestershire
Blakemore: Black Country, Shropshire, Rhodes: Bilston
Rhodes: Dudley, Worcs
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wrighk00
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 66
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thanks, Judy. I have been in contact with one of Annie Teresa's nieces through marriage who has verified most of our thinking. She had heard about a child who "died" when she (niece) was young. She feels very certain (more so than I want to let myself believe) that the Mona in her family is the same Mona in my daughter-in-law's family. I don't know how to totally prove it, but we will proceed little by little. Annie Teresa's grandson is also helping out. He said he was very "intrigued." The niece is more than willing to see if the proof is there. Everyone has been most kind and Fern's mother (Mona's daughter) is thrilled to think that an answer might be possible although too late for her mother to feel some peace about it. This niece's 94 year old father is living with her and talked to her after the inquiry about how they walked all around the area as young people and that Highgate was right in the area with St. Pancras.
On her marriage license Annie put her address as Portman Hotel ..it was Portman Estates which leased the address that A.T. was writing the letters from.
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wrighk00
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 66
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Have you now made contact with the Houchin family Kathy  To Marty...this statement with the unhappy face and question marks indicates to me that it is something that shouldn't have been done and you said like minded after this. There was no explanation of the unhappy face or question marks....
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Arranroots
Global Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 10887
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Oh dear!
This is unfortunately the trouble with "chatting" over the internet - one of the drawbacks is that we can't hear a tone of voice, and it's easy for a gentle enquiry to be misinterpreted.
The smiley faces are there to help with this proble, but sometimes they cause problems too!
The one - - just means that someone is a little puzzled.
It is best, as mentioned, to keep correspondents up to date with enquiries, especially if they have gone to lots of trouble to help - that way misunderstandings can be minimised.
Like Ankerdine, I hope this story will be continued - after trying so hard to help it would be lovely for us all to hear of any resolution.
Kind regards, Arranroots 
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Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SOM: BIRD, BURT aka BROWN HEF: BAUGH, LATHAM, CARTER, PRITCHARD GLS: WEBB, WORKMAN, LATHAM, MALPUS WIL: WEBB, SALTER RAD: PRITCHARD, WILLIAMS GLA: RYAN, KEARNEY, JONES, HARRY MON: WEBB, MORGAN, WILLIAMS, JONES, BIRD SCOTLAND: HASTINGS, CAMERON, KELSO, BUCHANAN, BETHUNE/ BEATON IRELAND: RYAN (WATERFORD), KEARNEY (DUBLIN), BOYLE(DUNDALK) |
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9051
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Hi Kathy
It was me who asked the question regarding contact with the Houchin family - not Marty As Arranroots has put so well, it was a simple question given you had said somethings that could only have come about through personal contact. I wasn't aware that you had managed to make contact in recent days with the family, so your comments now make sense in that context.
One of the very positive things about RootsChat, which I have seen happen very rarely in other forums, is that people here actually fully engage their minds (and sometimes emotions) on some problems and difficult research. People care about the verification of information so that the original poster really does get answers to questions that they raise, or gets as close as we can possibly manage. People here willingly spend a long time helping out (and in some cases, their own money to look at paid-for resources) to try and get the right information. Marty, as you know, has really been involved with you trying to help you find some answers
Mona's story has caught at all our hearts. We all sincerely hope you might be able to find some conclusive proof for her children and descendents that this is her mother and family. I am not so sure you will find all the answers to some of your questions, no one ever does really, but the closer you get the stronger the possibility that you will be able to make some conclusions.
Let us know if we can help further in any area
Monica
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire. Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll. Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire. Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan. McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland. Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland. ..........and lots of Spanish name interests........ Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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wrighk00
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 66
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I truly appreciate all the help and obvious interest and care from this website. It has been amazing. Yes, I did make contact (that's why I so eagerly wanted to connect with you off-line). I felt extremely nervous about it as Marty knows, not wanting ever to spring a previously unknown child into anyone's family tree and it is obvious Mona Dowling was unknown to some members of the family. However, she is the older half-sibling to someone still living and so I was especially concerned about the contact; hence perhaps read too much into your I also made an inquiry to another person who has a wonderful website on the Dowling/Houchin family and she all but confirmed that Mona Dowling and Mona Scott are one and the same. There was rumour of a child who "died"..On Annie's wedding certificate she listed her address as Portman Hotel. The 13 New Quebec Street address is part of the Portman Estates and just blocks apart. In one of the letters to the adoptive mother, she says she has booked a room for her to spend the night the time of meeting. It might fit with her having lived/worked at the hotel. Even though Annie Dowling was by that time married for 2 months she might still have contacts there (all conjecture!). All the addresses connected to A.T. Dowling are in close range of the New Quebec address. Again, it just comes down to ..is it possible that 2 Mona's were born in the same month, same year, to someone whose initials are A.T., who disappeared from view (no census records) in London in the same area?
Yes, I realize it was you who asked the question about the contact; Marty already knew the angst I was feeling about it! But she said she was of a like mind as you and perhaps I misread the as disapproving due to my own uncertainty about whether the contact was the right thing. Marty has been the backbone of the search for Mona. Two others I owe appreciation to are my sister-in-law who is from England and has done a lot of genealogy sleuthing there and a gentleman, Ian, who answered an inquiry to a Glamorgan board. They have spent hours on this, researching, answering questions, going the extra mile.
Now the last bit of connection to completely ease my mind would be to connect Dowling to Scott in some way, but that may never happen.
Again....thank you to everyone who has submitted their own interest, spent time, sent encouragement, etc. I can only say that Lizzy, whose mother Mona was, is thrilled to have some answers. She only wishes it had been in her mother's lifetime.
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wrighk00
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 66
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Here are pictures of Mona as a 3 year old and as a young woman.
Well, I thought I could attach, but operator trouble..have to figure it out... 
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« Last Edit: Saturday 07 November 09 22:43 UTC (UK) by wrighk00 »
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Daisy Loo
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1267
4 generations of Prestidge, 1835-1985
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Small, and probably inconsequential point, but the writing in the letters is unlike any Irish writing of the period that I have ever seen.
Could it be as already suggested, that the letters were not written by Annie Dowling herself, perhaps either by a "baby broker" or by a friend who could read and write?
I must say, having trawled through a load of 1911 Irish censuses today, many many people could not read/write...so I don't think the above point is that small at all.
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BARNETT- Buckinghamshire, Bedfordshire, Dorset HILSDEN/HILLSDEN/HILLSDON- Buckinghamshire, Berkshire, Canada PRESTIDGE/PRESTAGE- Warwickshire, Northamptonshire, Islington PINNIGER/PINEGAR/PINNEGAR - Wiltshire Branmbleby - Kent, Middlesex
LEACH- Norfolk BUTTERWORTH - Lancashire OTTON - Somerset LAWRENCE - Berkshire
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Daisy Loo
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1267
4 generations of Prestidge, 1835-1985
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was it the handwriting, or the language of the letter that was being referred to, Aghadowey?
My grandmother was born in 1916, we weren't a wealthy family, but she could read and write. My partner's Irish grandmother, born roughly same time, could not read or right. (She was from a rural area)
I suppose, I was following along the lines, that Annie Dowling possibley comes from Ireland, seemingly from Kildare, and her father appears to have been a farmer. The letters, although not the best grammar etc, are quite well written, or am I way off base?
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BARNETT- Buckinghamshire, Bedfordshire, Dorset HILSDEN/HILLSDEN/HILLSDON- Buckinghamshire, Berkshire, Canada PRESTIDGE/PRESTAGE- Warwickshire, Northamptonshire, Islington PINNIGER/PINEGAR/PINNEGAR - Wiltshire Branmbleby - Kent, Middlesex
LEACH- Norfolk BUTTERWORTH - Lancashire OTTON - Somerset LAWRENCE - Berkshire
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wrighk00
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 66
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I have found a census record for Denis Dowling living with his second wife (not mother of Annie) and a 24 year old son. He and his son Richard are listed as Farriers (I misread as farmers); on both James Joseph Dowling and Annie Teresa Dowling's marriage registrations, their father is listed as 1) ferrier and 2) blacksmith. My guess is that it's the right Denis Dowling although on the marriage registrations there are two n's Dennis...
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Daisy Loo
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1267
4 generations of Prestidge, 1835-1985
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I'm posting these for Kathy...and I do feel honoured. Seeing her picture for the first time, bought a lump to my throat...the little Mona is so so gorgeous!!!
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 Mona1.JPG (374.96 KB, 626x1006 - viewed 38 times.)
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BARNETT- Buckinghamshire, Bedfordshire, Dorset HILSDEN/HILLSDEN/HILLSDON- Buckinghamshire, Berkshire, Canada PRESTIDGE/PRESTAGE- Warwickshire, Northamptonshire, Islington PINNIGER/PINEGAR/PINNEGAR - Wiltshire Branmbleby - Kent, Middlesex
LEACH- Norfolk BUTTERWORTH - Lancashire OTTON - Somerset LAWRENCE - Berkshire
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