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Author Topic: Breconshire Parishes  (Read 2794 times)
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Breconshire Parishes
« on: Saturday 17 May 03 11:42 UTC (UK) »
 Brecknock, Builth, Crickhowell, Hay, Llandovery, Merthyr Tydfil, Neath, Pontardawe, Rhayader
« Last Edit: Saturday 31 January 04 01:09 UTC (UK) by Kazza » Logged
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philrootschat
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Re: Breconshire Parishes
« Reply #1 on: Friday 09 July 04 09:43 UTC (UK) »
Is there something missing from this message?  Half the places in this list are in other counties.  So what is it supposed to mean? Huh
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jk22
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Re: Breconshire Parishes
« Reply #2 on: Monday 03 March 08 08:00 UTC (UK) »
Rootschat,

Hello.

I'm having trouble with my Welsh gggrandmother!  Sarah Watkins md and had 4 children that i know of via the Essex censuses of 1851 and 1861.  Thereafter a blank re Sarah's story.  Three of her children i know superficially quite well via the various records - censuses, BMD certificates.

On the
1851 census
 she gives her POB as
"Bracknick, Radnorshire, Wales". 
 This can't be!  However would the Essex enumerator have linguistically misunderstood 'Bracknick' for Brecknock???  In which case why did she say Radnorshire?  Was she playing games with 'big brother'?

Watkins, i believe is a fairly common name in Wales and i have had paid research via Powys with little or no real increase on what i gleaned for myself via the English side of her story.  Back in her young days  Sarah may have left her father's house to either work and reside in the extended family scenario which when looking at the censuses, she doesn't appear in any household which has a William as her father along with age.  And finally with regard to age, Sarah gave two different ages on the two censuses:  in 1851 she's 37, birthyear then 1814, then in 1861 she says she's 40, birthyear thus 1821.  I've searched but remain confused!!

Would you be able to comment on anything herein please!?
Julie.
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ENGLAND:  Ball, Beer, Bell, Green, Jacklin, Kemp, Miles, Mowat
WALES:  Watkins
SCOTLAND:  McPherson, Cooper, Ferguson, Galloway, Patterson
Carrie Ann
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Breconshire Parishes
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 07 May 08 09:09 UTC (UK) »
I know at one time part of  the area around Hay on Wye was in Brecon and half was in Rads, so maybe she came from that area and wasn`t sure which if she was born on the border..
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Coram Allen Jayne  Dev/Som/Gloucestershire
Chambers Brecs/Rads//Hereford/Merthyr/Ebbw Vale
Jones/ Prosser/Probert/ Clyro,Rads
Price/Farr/Chambers Glasbury Brecs
Warby/Worldwide
jk22
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Re: Breconshire Parishes
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 07 May 08 11:47 UTC (UK) »
Thanks Carrie Ann, that is a help just to know.

Can i ask you if you think that a Welsh lady speaking to an Englishman taking the census in 1851 in Essex would or could interpret her pronounciation/enunciation of

Brecknock as being  "Bracknick"??

It she new she came from Brecknock, but unsure as you suggest, would it still apply as per your explanation re Hay on Wye being betwixt and between county borders?  That is, is Brecknock near Hay on Wye?

This has been teasing me for too long!!  I'd love to get close to identifying my Sarah Watkins/Green.

Regards
Julie
Logged
ENGLAND:  Ball, Beer, Bell, Green, Jacklin, Kemp, Miles, Mowat
WALES:  Watkins
SCOTLAND:  McPherson, Cooper, Ferguson, Galloway, Patterson
Carrie Ann
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Breconshire Parishes
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 07 May 08 14:29 UTC (UK) »
the enumerators often made mistakes in the spelling of names and towns on the censusand the person giving the information would not be likely to know the correct spelling either >
she may be referring to brecon town in breconshire>
breconshire and radnorshire border each other why not raise your query on the brecon rootsweb list <there are many experts on there with superb knowledge of the area>
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Coram Allen Jayne  Dev/Som/Gloucestershire
Chambers Brecs/Rads//Hereford/Merthyr/Ebbw Vale
Jones/ Prosser/Probert/ Clyro,Rads
Price/Farr/Chambers Glasbury Brecs
Warby/Worldwide
jk22
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Re: Breconshire Parishes
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 08 May 08 11:11 UTC (UK) »
Thanks Carrie Ann.
Will do.
Julie.
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ENGLAND:  Ball, Beer, Bell, Green, Jacklin, Kemp, Miles, Mowat
WALES:  Watkins
SCOTLAND:  McPherson, Cooper, Ferguson, Galloway, Patterson
vic1
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Breconshire Parishes
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 08 May 08 21:30 UTC (UK) »
Yes enmumerators did make  mistakes. because of accent and the border accent round hay was ( my grandad  accent was this ) sometimes extremely hard to understand as they spoke ? speak very fast . Found one of my relatives  instead of being spelt with a v  had two tt s instead wondered why i couldn't find them  even though i knew exactly where they should be and they were  just the enumerator had spelt a different surname.  the border did fluctauate a lot  between censuses as i 've found . happy hunting
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pembrokeshire Coates,Rees, Williams
galmorgan Coates Williams Francis
brecknock stephens Driscoll lewis Webb Jones price
herefordshire Jones page savager price carwardine
radnorshire Rees savager Jones
jk22
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Re: Breconshire Parishes
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 08 May 08 21:50 UTC (UK) »
Vic1,

Thanks very much for the explanation.
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ENGLAND:  Ball, Beer, Bell, Green, Jacklin, Kemp, Miles, Mowat
WALES:  Watkins
SCOTLAND:  McPherson, Cooper, Ferguson, Galloway, Patterson
kinged
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Posts: 169
Re: Breconshire Parishes
« Reply #9 on: Saturday 10 May 08 12:19 UTC (UK) »
Hi
I think BrecknocK was the original name for Brecon.
Frank
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vic1
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Breconshire Parishes
« Reply #10 on: Saturday 15 November 08 20:39 UTC (UK) »
Brecknock was the original name for the county. it was never actually known as Breconshire untill fairly recently  used to get shouted ar for saying brecionshire in the 60s by my grandads
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pembrokeshire Coates,Rees, Williams
galmorgan Coates Williams Francis
brecknock stephens Driscoll lewis Webb Jones price
herefordshire Jones page savager price carwardine
radnorshire Rees savager Jones
jk22
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Posts: 255



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Re: Breconshire Parishes
« Reply #11 on: Saturday 15 November 08 22:26 UTC (UK) »

Vic, Carrie Ann, Kinged,

Thanks so much for the info/explanation everyone.  Fascinating.  I like to think what it must have been like not to have to bother with political and bureaucratic concerns such as what is your voting/electoral district!

Julie
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ENGLAND:  Ball, Beer, Bell, Green, Jacklin, Kemp, Miles, Mowat
WALES:  Watkins
SCOTLAND:  McPherson, Cooper, Ferguson, Galloway, Patterson
jk22
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Posts: 255



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Re: Breconshire Parishes
« Reply #12 on: Saturday 15 November 08 22:43 UTC (UK) »
Hello again,

I'm back just realising i'm still confused!

As the 1851 census holds "Bracknick, Radnorshire, Wales" as Sarah's origin how does that sit with

. Bracknick being the original name for the county
. is Brecknock the same as Bracknick?  Or is Brecknock still a village within the county, of recent naming, Brecon, formerly, Brecknockshire??

I guess i'm asking if Sarah actually didn't give a name of a village just a county or rather two that bordered each other thereby implying she came from somewhere within that shared border.  Or did she actually come from a village called Bracknick, which was and remains located in the shared border area?

Could anyone comment please?!

Regards
Julie
Logged
ENGLAND:  Ball, Beer, Bell, Green, Jacklin, Kemp, Miles, Mowat
WALES:  Watkins
SCOTLAND:  McPherson, Cooper, Ferguson, Galloway, Patterson
vic1
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Breconshire Parishes
« Reply #13 on: Saturday 15 November 08 23:16 UTC (UK) »
My grandfather came from around talgarth in Brecknock. If you asked him where he came From he would reply Brecknock. the area on the border has changed frequently through time and she may have been born right on the border of the  two. also may be compounded by the fact they were often referred to together which is also what she May have done have racked my Brains to, think of  a place which might sound like it and the only place i can think of is brechfa but thats nearer camarthen. i grew up just in herefordshire and have  travelled  most of both counties with my father and most of my family research is in these areas.willlcome back if  i have any further thoughts
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pembrokeshire Coates,Rees, Williams
galmorgan Coates Williams Francis
brecknock stephens Driscoll lewis Webb Jones price
herefordshire Jones page savager price carwardine
radnorshire Rees savager Jones
vic1
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Breconshire Parishes
« Reply #14 on: Saturday 15 November 08 23:31 UTC (UK) »
hi am back already
have been on  the LDS site  and looked at the igi - in brecknock there are 3 results for Sarah Watkins one of whom has a father called William and born in 1838 in llanigon  which is roughly the area my  family came from. haven't looked at radnorshire  yet incidentally  all the sarah watkins came from roughly the same area the two from glasbury are  on the border of the two counties . these look  promising to me and remember in the early censuses they often rounded the ages up or down. as  they weren't always sure of their ages anyway
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pembrokeshire Coates,Rees, Williams
galmorgan Coates Williams Francis
brecknock stephens Driscoll lewis Webb Jones price
herefordshire Jones page savager price carwardine
radnorshire Rees savager Jones
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