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Topic: Llansilin Parish Record Lookup - Wood(s) (Read 1047 times)
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Earle
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 14
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Seek birth/baptismal info concerning a Godfrey or Geofrey Wood(s) born in the Llansilin area of Denbighshire c1836.
Thank you.
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Gadget
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 24563
Holy Island - Pilgrims' Path
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Hi Earle
He's definitely down as Godfrey Woods, aged 35, a harpist on the 1871 in Flintshire:
RG10/5669/54/24
I've checked the Llansilin records (they are on the IGI www.familysearch.org ) for around about his birth year but he's not listed. This may indicate that his family were non-conformists or he was baptised eleswhere.
Have you found him on the 1841/1851 censuses which might give an indication of his parents. Also, his marriage certificate to Mary A would give his father's name.
The North Wales BMD site have a marriage for Geoffrey Woods with a Mary Anne Simon on the same page - St Mwrog and St Mary, Llanfwrog, 1857.
The full GRO ref for this is:
Sept quarter, 1857, Ruthin, vol 11b, page 471 (his name written as Geofrey Woods)
This location fits with the birthplace of the eldest child, Elija) - aged 12, b. Ruthin on the 1871.
The family seem to have been mainly in Flintshire over the period 1861-1871.
Regards
Gadget
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Gadget
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 24563
Holy Island - Pilgrims' Path
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Ahhhh - Just found this on the Nat Library site:
(3) THOMAS WOOD , b. in a barn at Llan-y-bydder, and d. at Ruthin at the age of 95. He had nine children, among whom may be mentioned (a) ROBERT WOOD, a harpist frequently encountered at Glanbrân; (b) JEREMIAH WOOD, harpist, buried at Llanrwst; (c) ADAM WOOD, harpist (father of the harpist GODFREY WOOD), who was buried at S. Asaph; (d) SAIFORELLA WOOD, mother of the MATTHEW (‘MATCHO’) WOOD, from whom Sampson obtained much of his recorded gipsy folk-lore — Matthew d. at Bala, 2 March 1929, ‘aged 86,’ and was buried at Llanycil. my emphasis
http://yba.llgc.org.uk/en/s-WOOD-SIP-1500.html
He is also mentioned on the Romanygenes site, but I can't get the link to work!
romanygenes2.webeden.co.uk/walesscotsirish/4526932613
I found some interesting bits about the Wood(s) family recently:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,407908.0.html
I wonder if he was part of this line ?
Gadget
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Earle
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 14
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hello Gadget,
You are a gem.
Godfrey (Geofrey on marriage cert.) did in fact marry Mary
Anne Simon on 7 Jul 1857. I have a copy but therein is my problem - all printed references to Godfrey and his brother Elijah list the father as Adam Wood as you show in above message. But, Godfrey & Elijah's marriage certs. list their father as Jeremiah Wood. I have been trying to obtain birth records to clarify who the real father is.
I have not found Godfrey or Elijah (b. c1840) in the 1841 to 1861 censuses.
The above brothers are descendants of the Abram Wood gypsy family line.
Much appreciate your help.
Earle
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Gadget
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 24563
Holy Island - Pilgrims' Path
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Hi Earle
You've no doubt come across these baptism at Llansilin (IGI extracted):
24th July 1821 Mary d/o Thomas Woods and Salvina
9 July 1823 John s/o Thos Woods and Salvina
1st October 1823 Theophilus s/o Jeremiah Woods and Anne
27 April 1828 Robert s/o William Wood and Eleanor
I'll check through my earlier Llansilin records (IGI online ones are only from 1813) and get back if I can find anything.
From the ref given in my previous message ( http://yba.llgc.org.uk/en/s-WOOD-SIP-1500.html ), it would seem that there are at least two Jeremiah Woods - the son of Valentine Woods( John Abraham Woods) and the other would be the son of Thomas Woods, son of Valentine, and brother to Adam.
I'm wondering if it might be best to see if this thread might be better moved to the Travellers Board as there are some people there who are far more knowledgeable about the Woods family than I.
I'll PM one of the Mods for advice.
Regards
Gadget
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Gadget
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 24563
Holy Island - Pilgrims' Path
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Hi again
I've checked out all my Llansilin records but can only find one ref to Wood(s):
Baptism 1st Feb 1770 Melliah d/o John Wood. Abode - Sychtyn
There is a Llansilin History Society. Contact details are given here:
http://www.local-history.co.uk/Groups/salop.html
They have been very helpful to me in the past and I'm sure someone there will know of the Woods family.
If I can find anything else, I'll be in touch.
Regards
Gadget
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Earle
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 14
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Gadget,
I have sent an email to Mr. Burton at the Llansilin History Society concerning Godfrey Wood and family. Will keep you informed.
Best wishes,
Earle
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king otg
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 30
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Earle,
With reference to your Reply #3, all speculation, including most of what is in print, emanates from Dr John Sampson's ABRAM WOOD pedigree which was written up by E O Winstedt in JGLS (3) 13. It contains numerous errors, some pointed out to me by descendants of those who are named.
The errors made at the time of publication are caused largely by Sampson no longer being alive to supervise it but other errors were made in the collection of the material. For example, Manfri Frederick Wood, whom there is no reason to doubt, wrote that his grandfather, Frederick Wood, was wrongly omitted from the ABRAM WOOD pedigree.
There is more about this in The A TO Z Of Gipsy Genealogies: Part One which is a free download provided you do not pass it on to anybody else.
So, with respect to the marriage certificates of Elijah and Geofrey WOODS, the details come from a primary source so they are much more likely to be correct than from the recollection of a distant relative like Matthew WOOD.
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Earle
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 14
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi again Gadget,
Contacted Mr. Burton and he was not able to clarify the problem of Elijah & Godfrey's parents. He put me in touch with Lord Thomas who has a connection with the Wood family. He sent me a copy of the Wood pedigree by Dr.
Sampson which shows Adam & Ellen Wood as parents of
Elijah & Godfrey. He stated that, "probably nobody knew
who was whose father."
I am now back where I started - but, your rationale makes the most sense. If I could just find their birth/baptismal
records.
Thanks again for your excellent assistance.
Earle
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Gadget
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 24563
Holy Island - Pilgrims' Path
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Hi Earle 
Glad you've got some leads.
I'll keep my eye open for any baptisms in the adjoining parishes. Although they might not have been baptised.
Gadget
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king otg
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 30
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Earle,
I am not part of Romanygenes but the site owner kindly passed on your request for a copy of Part One of my A To Z. You are most welcome.
I do not think there is much room for making everybody right, Earle. The marriage certificates say that Elijah Wood and Godfrey/Geofrey Wood were sons of Jeremiah so that must be is true. There are cases where the father's name given at baptism differs from the one given at marriage but in this case there is no baptism to contradict the marriage details. Hearsay is not as strong as an official register entry therefore, in this respect, the Abram Wood pedigree is plain wrong until evidence to the contrary is located.
As for their baptisms, since they were not from their mother's first marriage (to William WOOD) you might find them under a different surname even though everybody is called WOOD or WOODS. The chances of them not being baptised is close to zero.
It occurred to me that Thomas WOOD who is present with Elijah in 1861 is not on the Abram Wood pedigree and perhaps he is the same person as Godfrey. If so, it gives an alternative place of baptism but it would mean finding an explanation for the absence of his wife and first two children.
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Earle
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 14
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hello king otg,
Thank you for your response.
I agree with your and Gadget's (reply #7) rationale that a primary source is more valid than a pedigree compiled by several others.
Where did you find, "Thomas Wood who is present with Elijah in 1861." I cannot find the two together.
If Jeremiah Wood is the father of Elijah & Godfrey - then which Jeremiah is it? Jeremiah (Bach Gogerddan) had a son Jeremiah as did Thomas & Sylvaina.
I would appreciate any help you can provide.
Earle
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king otg
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 30
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Earle,
I can answer the first question but will have to check my files for the second. There were, as you say, a number of Jeremiahs.
Thomas WOODS age 25 appears with Elijah (Alija) at 1861FLN-4268/22/7 which is at Holywell. Also present is Elijah's mother and a male by the name of Harrell whom you probably know about. It is clearly a close family group even though they are referred to as 'lodgers'.
Thomas's age is precisely the age that Godfrey should be in 1861 based upon his age in 1871. He also has the same occupation as Godfrey, harpist, and gives his birthplace as South Aberystwyth.
Regards
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Gadget
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 24563
Holy Island - Pilgrims' Path
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That seems to be them
I see Thomas is down as b. South Aberystwyth. If we could find them on the 1851, it might give us another birth check to find a baptism.
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Earle
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 14
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi king otg & Gadget,
Re: replies 12 & 13:
The 1861 Holywell, Flintshire census really throws me concerning the Wood(s) family.
Aliga is listed as unmarried but Elijah married Mary Roberts on 20 Aug 1860. No relationship is given for Ellen other than she is a Widow. Her age 56 rules her out as the Ellen (b. c1786) who had two children with Adam Wood who we earlier thought might be Godfrey & Elijah's parents according to Dr. Sampson's pedigree. I do not know of Harrell.
I am stuck at the moment on how to determine the parents of Godfrey & Elijah. Since their marriage certificates both state Jeremiah as the father, that seems to be the best info but which Jeremiah of several is correct?
More research!
Earle
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