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king otg
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 30
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Earle,
I have been doing a lot of reading on the subject over the weekend and think that both of us got it wrong in some respects. I did ask you for the details on Elijah's marriage certificate because I anticipated your question. The precise year of Elijah's birth and his father's occupation are needed to tidy up some of the details. The father's occupation on Godfrey's marriage certificate are slightly less useful for reasons not worth going into.
Although it is only hearsay, Matthew Wood (D37 on the ABRAM WOOD pedigree, born 1845) gave an account which, if the years are added from census and baptism records, shows that William (C12) and Ellen (C5) parted AFTER the birth of Godfrey and probably after the birth of Elijah. I would expect the baptisms, when found, to give the parents as William and Ellen.
The reasons why Sampson's records give 'Adam' are complicated and perhaps too complicated for this forum but Adam (D16) and Jeremiah (D15) were both aged about 6 at the time of Godfrey's birth. I do believe that the Ellen (C5), whose age at death makes her appear to have been born in 1786, is the SAME person as the Ellen who appears to have been born later. Judging by all her children's births she would have to have been born close 1800.
One of the reasons for the confusion is a common one on these old gipsy pedigrees. When two people having the same surname married they were sometimes interchanged on the pedigrees. In this case I suspect that Ellen belongs at C12 and William at C5. In other words Ellen (C5) was not the sister of Adam (C1) and Jerry (C4) but their sister-in-law.
After the split, while Godfrey and Elijah were about 5 and 2 respectively, Ellen took up with Jerry (C5). Whether or not Godfrey and Elijah knew that Jerry was their uncle, and not their biological father, will remain a mystery.
And at this point I will terminate my contributions to this subject.
Best of luck
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boswell37
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 25
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Adam Wood's baptism in 1827, assuming he did not die young, roughly determines the date at which William abandoned his wife. It may be a few years out to place the date at 1841, as Matty Wood does, because he says that the brothers Adam and Jeremiah were about 10 or 11 which means 1837-8 and that is around the time of Elijah's birth.
If Jerry senior was William's brother it makes sense for him to have partnered Ellen but there is still a tiny bit of doubt as to who was the father of Elijah. It is possible that Ellen was indeed the sister of Jeremiah assuming all of her children came from William. I certainly cannot see any Adam being involved.
Sampson's problem is the same as ours. How to get it right without implying incest. Some of those old Ryes loved to imply the worst. They were obsessed with it. But I think Sampson had his head screwed on correctly.
That's all I've got.
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Earle
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 14
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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To all,
I thank everyone who has spent time and effort in trying to resolve the true parentage of brothers Godfrey & Elijah Wood(s). I now firmly believe that the only solution will be to uncover their birth/baptismal certificates or possibly an obituary written at time of death.
In summary: Both marriage certificates list Jeremiah Wood, harpist, as father. Godfrey was born c1836/7 from marriage & death certs. and was a witness at Elijah's wedding. Godfrey died 2 Jan 1872 in St. Asaph, Flintshire. 1871 census states he was born in Llansilin, Denbighshire. Elijah was born c1839/40 from marriage & death certs. and was present at Godfrey's death. Elijah died 15 Apr 1899 in The Rectory, Llysfaen, Conway, Denbighshire. 1871 & 1891 censuses state he was born in St. Asaph, Flintshire and Denbigh, Denbighshire respectively.
Thanks again for the wonderful help.
Earle
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king otg
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 30
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Boswell37,
I agree with your deductions about Elijah but am still uncertain about his birthplace. (I already know for certain where Godfrey was baptised thanks to reliable info passed on by his descendants.) Will check on them both at the same parish when I go to Wales next month.
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boswell37
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 25
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi King otg,
I have found his wife and children in 1881 but not Elijah himself so no luck there.
Can you send me Godfrey's baptism details ?
Dawn
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« Last Edit: Wednesday 28 October 09 15:00 UTC (UK) by admin09 »
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king otg
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 30
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Boswell37,
Yup I now have Mary etc in 1881 Anglesey. I have sent you an email but forgot to add the county. It is Merioneth.
Regards
T
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boswell37
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 25
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Found William Wood using his alternate surname in 1861 and 1851 but will have to see the original to be certain. Slight doubt because he is too consistent from one census to the next.
Dawn
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king otg
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 30
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Although I have all the alternate surnames for the WOODs it never before occurred to me to do a census check with them.
I have found Benjamin, son of William and Ellen, using his alternate.
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« Last Edit: Wednesday 28 October 09 15:01 UTC (UK) by admin09 »
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boswell37
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 25
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I cannot find that last one. What's the PNo.?
Dawn
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« Last Edit: Wednesday 28 October 09 15:01 UTC (UK) by admin09 »
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Earle
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 14
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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king otg,
Please say where & when Godfrey was baptised.
And what is the other name that the Woods used?
Thanks.
Earle
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Gadget
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 24564
Holy Island - Pilgrims' Path
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Hi Earle
I don't wish to butt in but I've just come across this thread:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,66801.0.html
It might have some more info for you.
I cam across a source that the Ellen mentioned was baptised in Llanuwchllyn, Merionethshire on 2nd March 1831 but I've checked the records for that parish and Llanycil and can't find anything for the exact date stated.
Given that Oswestry was pretty close to Llansilin and the Berwyn mountains (dividing Denbighshire, Merionethshire and Montgoemryshire) it might be worth investigating further. My own ancestors have led me a merry dance in these three counties and Shropshire but have managed to get back a fair way. Lots of Jones, Roberts, etc.
Gadget
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king otg
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 30
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Gadget,
How do you do that? I mean quote another page from elsewhere on Rootschat. I took a brief look at the other topic (ROBERTS) but it did not seem to go anywhere. I like to see specific dates and places because it gives others a means of becoming involved.
As I understand it this particular page is a 'look up' topic and I see you have been checking things out, and making some useful suggestions.
I will soon be going to Wales to do my look ups but the WOODs will have to share time with other important names. Unfortunately I cannot go there very often so if I forget something it will be quite a wait before the next visit.
I think I am done here.
Best wishes
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Gadget
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 24564
Holy Island - Pilgrims' Path
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Hi k otg
To copy a url link, all you need do is highlight the address that shows in the address bar of your browser when you are on the particular page and copy it (Ctrl + C ) . Then you can paste it into a message by using Ctrl+V.
I've done a screenshot of the address showing while I've typed this reply and attached it (see below).
I've become interested in the Woods and other Welsh Roma families over the last few years because my ancestors also came from those parts and I was born there. It's all fascinating and reminds me of my childhood and growing up in North Wales. When I go back there now things have changed so much.
I do hope you have an enjoyable and productive stay there this time and can find the baptism of Godfrey Wood for Earle.
Are you going to the Nat Libary at Aberysywyth?
Regards
Gadget
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Earle
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 14
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Boswell & King otg,
Re: Reply #19 & #25.
Please send me what info you have on Godfrey & Elijah's
birth/baptism date & place. They are direct ancestors of family members.
Thanks much.
Earle
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